Love Music Hate Racism on Morrissey

Walter Ego

Not Banned
The Socialist Worker has published an interview with spokesman for Love Music Hate Racism. Lots about Morrissey. (sorry if this has already been posted)

Extract:
"I don't believe it's a mistake. I think it's conscious, and I think he's gone too far. In our organization, some of the bands have already met and talked about it, and we don't want to be associated with him. We feel it's not helpful to anybody."

Also Tim Jonze (ex NME Editor) said tonight about the case between him and Morrissey: "He (Morrissey) was never going to do anything - he knew we had it all on tape, exactly as printed."

Link to Socialist Worker article: http://socialistworker.org/2010/09/17/clarion-call-for-the-movement
 
D

Dave

Guest
Morrissey never said it was a mistake. They will be in their graves long before that thought crosses his mind.
 

Scarlet1987

The sanest days are mad
So all these people believe he's a pure racist? This is crazy
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
This is what the "Trotskyite" actually said. Can't disagree with it myself. Of course being a "Commie" he's bound to come out in support of the Chinese etc etc

MORRISSEY HAS also had a relationship with LMHR in the past. Back in 2008, he gave several thousand pounds to the group to help out with one of your carnivals. With his recent comments, though--calling the Chinese a "subspecies"--do you think there will be any kind of relationship in the future?

NO, I think it's gone now.

I'm a lot older than many of your readers will be. I was around the punk scene in the late '70s in Britain and was part of Rock Against Racism. At that time in Britain, we had a much more serious problem with very big bands--punk bands--flirting with fascism. The Sex Pistols wore swastika armbands--well, certainly Sid Vicious did and so did Siouxsie Sioux from Siouxsie and the Banshees.

We have a famous case of Elvis Costello saying about Ray Charles, "Can you get that n***** offstage?" when he was performing. You had David Bowie coming back to England after a tour of Germany wearing a Nazi uniform and going through Victoria Station like Hitler. You had British Movement skinheads hanging around bands like Sham 69 or Madness--gigs were being disrupted.

Some of the bands had quite a dubious record on this: Bowie certainly was flirting with fascism, Madness defended their road crew who were fascists, Jimmy Pursey of Sham 69 had lots of hardcore fascist fans following him around.

We had a policy, though, which was try to engage with these artists, win them away from racism and certainly get them to distance themselves from the people associated with fascism. We were accused at the time of being soft, but we never thought that. We thought you had to win the hearts and minds of the artists.

You shouldn't just say, "If you make a racist comment, you are forever doomed." I think it was really successful because of the people I've mentioned, all have subsequently completely and utterly dissociated themselves from fascism and racism. In fact, many of them have become quite left-wing artists in their own right. David Bowie has both given money to the Anti-Nazi League and completely condemned his views from the '70s. Madness are very friendly to Love Music Hate Racism. Elvis Costello, too.

We were very nervous about Morrissey from the beginning when we launched LMHR because of some of the songs he's sung, like "Bengali in Platforms," hanging around the Madness gig wearing a Union Jack flag and all that. Now, when he made the comments about immigration [in the NME in 2008], he made quite a strong case that he didn't say them, and he wanted to make a statement against racism and come out in support of an anti-racist cause.

I would have been more suspicious, but before that, he was starting to hang around LMHR concerts. He came to one of our very first gigs with the Libertines. He was there, he signed T-shirts, and he really wanted to support us. He was already beginning to hang around with anti-racist bands, and we thought, "Come on, let's give the man a chance." He sponsored the carnival, gave us $44,000, and he also wanted us to put stalls up at his gigs to make a strong anti-racist statement. We thought that was worth doing.

But this time...you know, everyone's entitled to be wrong or change their mind once. I think the problem we've got with Morrissey is that he's done it several times.

I don't believe it's a mistake. I think it's conscious, and I think he's gone too far. In our organization, some of the bands have already met and talked about it, and we don't want to be associated with him. We feel it's not helpful to anybody.

Of course, he could come out and make a clear denunciation, saying he didn't say it--he hasn't done that so far. And he hasn't contacted us to say he wants to distance himself from his statements. I think really he has to grow up at minimum.

These are much more serious statements than he's made before. "Subhuman" is crude racism, to put it mildly. If someone like Adolf Hitler said that, you'd talk about biological racism, which everyone knows is genocidal. So I feel he's really crossed the Rubicon on it really.
 

Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
However if they're that outraged they could hand "the racist's" money back to him
 

Brel

Guttersnipe
The Socialist Worker has published an interview with spokesman for Love Music Hate Racism. Lots about Morrissey. (sorry if this has already been posted)

Extract:
"I don't believe it's a mistake. I think it's conscious, and I think he's gone too far. In our organization, some of the bands have already met and talked about it, and we don't want to be associated with him. We feel it's not helpful to anybody."

Also Tim Jonze (ex NME Editor) said tonight about the case between him and Morrissey: "He (Morrissey) was never going to do anything - he knew we had it all on tape, exactly as printed."

Link to Socialist Worker article: http://socialistworker.org/2010/09/17/clarion-call-for-the-movement

That'll be the Tim Jonze who is now Music Editor at the Guardian on-line then?
Hmm?
 

Qvist

Active Member
This is what the "Trotskyite" actually said. Can't disagree with it myself. Of course being a "Commie" he's bound to come out in support of the Chinese etc etc

MORRISSEY HAS also had a relationship with LMHR in the past. Back in 2008, he gave several thousand pounds to the group to help out with one of your carnivals. With his recent comments, though--calling the Chinese a "subspecies"--do you think there will be any kind of relationship in the future?

NO, I think it's gone now.

I'm a lot older than many of your readers will be. I was around the punk scene in the late '70s in Britain and was part of Rock Against Racism. At that time in Britain, we had a much more serious problem with very big bands--punk bands--flirting with fascism. The Sex Pistols wore swastika armbands--well, certainly Sid Vicious did and so did Siouxsie Sioux from Siouxsie and the Banshees.

We have a famous case of Elvis Costello saying about Ray Charles, "Can you get that n***** offstage?" when he was performing. You had David Bowie coming back to England after a tour of Germany wearing a Nazi uniform and going through Victoria Station like Hitler. You had British Movement skinheads hanging around bands like Sham 69 or Madness--gigs were being disrupted.

Some of the bands had quite a dubious record on this: Bowie certainly was flirting with fascism, Madness defended their road crew who were fascists, Jimmy Pursey of Sham 69 had lots of hardcore fascist fans following him around.

We had a policy, though, which was try to engage with these artists, win them away from racism and certainly get them to distance themselves from the people associated with fascism. We were accused at the time of being soft, but we never thought that. We thought you had to win the hearts and minds of the artists.

You shouldn't just say, "If you make a racist comment, you are forever doomed." I think it was really successful because of the people I've mentioned, all have subsequently completely and utterly dissociated themselves from fascism and racism. In fact, many of them have become quite left-wing artists in their own right. David Bowie has both given money to the Anti-Nazi League and completely condemned his views from the '70s. Madness are very friendly to Love Music Hate Racism. Elvis Costello, too.

We were very nervous about Morrissey from the beginning when we launched LMHR because of some of the songs he's sung, like "Bengali in Platforms," hanging around the Madness gig wearing a Union Jack flag and all that. Now, when he made the comments about immigration [in the NME in 2008], he made quite a strong case that he didn't say them, and he wanted to make a statement against racism and come out in support of an anti-racist cause.

I would have been more suspicious, but before that, he was starting to hang around LMHR concerts. He came to one of our very first gigs with the Libertines. He was there, he signed T-shirts, and he really wanted to support us. He was already beginning to hang around with anti-racist bands, and we thought, "Come on, let's give the man a chance." He sponsored the carnival, gave us $44,000, and he also wanted us to put stalls up at his gigs to make a strong anti-racist statement. We thought that was worth doing.

But this time...you know, everyone's entitled to be wrong or change their mind once. I think the problem we've got with Morrissey is that he's done it several times.

I don't believe it's a mistake. I think it's conscious, and I think he's gone too far. In our organization, some of the bands have already met and talked about it, and we don't want to be associated with him. We feel it's not helpful to anybody.

Of course, he could come out and make a clear denunciation, saying he didn't say it--he hasn't done that so far. And he hasn't contacted us to say he wants to distance himself from his statements. I think really he has to grow up at minimum.

These are much more serious statements than he's made before. "Subhuman" is crude racism, to put it mildly. If someone like Adolf Hitler said that, you'd talk about biological racism, which everyone knows is genocidal. So I feel he's really crossed the Rubicon on it really.

In my honest opinion, this bloke just sounds really, really, really stupid.


"Subhuman", right. Has anyone actually said "Subhuman"? Not as such, no. Here's a chap who's obsessed with the symbolical significance of choice of words, which you'd think would make it rather self-evidently important to get the words right.

Would what Morrissey said have meant something different if it had been Adolf Hitler saying it? Er, yeah. Which is why it's pretty f***ing important that it wasn't Adolf Hitler saying it.

Which do you think is the better explanation for why nearly all the artists this guy has been worrying himself about for the past 30 years due to their "flirtation with racism" in the end wound up as supporters for LMHR?

1. Him and his compatriots did a really marvellous job explaining to David Bowie, Elvis Costello, Madness, Siouxsie Sioux and Morrissey that you really shouldn't, you know, be a racist and stuff - something which hadn't really occurred to them otherwise. Of course, Funk-trip Young Americans, Madness classic Embarrassment, Costello's obvious debt to soul music, Morrissey's multiple rejections of racism and Siouxsie Sioux's wearing of the star of David while giving a skinhead crowd the bird were just pure coincidences.

2. David Bowie, Elvis Costello, Madness, Siouxsie Sioux and Morrissey weren't actually racists in the first place, rather it was whoever wrote this twaddle and his chums who convinced themselves that a bunch of rock stars practically had KKK robes hanging in their closets because they were (and clearly remain) unable to conceive of any utterance having any other meaning than literalness motivated by the worst imaginable motive. And hardly even that, judging from his inability to even distinguish between "subspecies" and "subhuman".

"Grow up"? Right back at you, sonny.

The fight against racism is much, much, much too important to be in the hands of sanctimonious idiots like this.


cheers
 
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Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
In my honest opinion, this bloke just sounds really, really, really stupid.


"Subhuman", right. Has anyone actually said "Subhuman"? Not as such, no. Here's a chap who's obsessed with the symbolical significance of choice of words, which you'd think would make it rather self-evidently important to get the words right.

Would what Morrissey said have meant something different if it had been Adolf Hitler saying it? Er, yeah. Which is why it's pretty f***ing important that it wasn't Adolf Hitler saying it.

Which do you think is the better explanation for why nearly all the artists this guy has been worrying himself about for the past 30 years due to their "flirtation with racism" in the end wound up as supporters for LMHR?

1. Him and his compatriots did a really marvellous job explaining to David Bowie, Elvis Costello, Madness, Siouxsie Sioux and Morrissey that you really shouldn't, you know, be a racist and stuff - something which hadn't really occurred to them otherwise. Of course, Funk-trip Young Americans, Madness classic Embarrassment, Costello's obvious debt to soul music, Morrissey's multiple rejections of racism and Siouxsie Sioux's wearing of the star of David while giving a skinhead crowd the bird were just pure coincidences.

2. David Bowie, Elvis Costello, Madness, Siouxsie Sioux and Morrissey weren't actually racists in the first place, rather it was whoever wrote this twaddle and his chums who convinced themselves that a bunch of rock stars practically had KKK robes hanging in their closets because they were (and clearly remain) unable to conceive of any utterance having any other meaning than literalness motivated by the worst imaginable motive. And hardly even that, judging from his inability to even distinguish between "subspecies" and "subhuman".

"Grow up"? Right back at you, sonny.

The fight against racism is much, much, much too important to be in the hands of sanctimonious idiots like this.


cheers

Well put. A coherent argument.

However I believe the bloke was involved in Rock Against Racism back in the 70s? I'm not sure if he was, but they did actually have a positive effect back then.

And Morrissey, regardless of personal opinions, has been known to have a bit of history in addressing non-PC views. And hyperbole helps everyone.
 

Qvist

Active Member
That'll be the Tim Jonze who is now Music Editor at the Guardian on-line then?
Hmm?

You're kidding, right? Please say you do. Because if you don't, this whole hullaballoo isn't even funny.

EDIT: You're not kidding. Ah well. The bits fall into place.



cheers
 
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Bluebirds

Well-Known Member
But whatever did happen to the protracted court case between Morrissey and the NME? Or do you think IPC settled out of court in light of the Quantick "review" ?
 
D

DianaDors

Guest
LMHR and Jonze just look like prize twats for ignoring the obvious subtleties of meaning and nuances of context. They have an agenda and they'll use any means necessary. Certainly I will no longer support LMHR if they are willing to be bounced into such absurd posturing. Far from appearing strong and principled, they actually seem the exact opposite: flailing around like spineless, brainless idiots. This bunch of morons put me in mind of Rik Mayall's character from The Young Ones - forever imagining politically incorrect slurs where none exist. Attacking Morrissey is like calling for the imprisonment of Alan Bennett or Roy Clarke or any other writer who cherishes a quaint, slightly archaic (fictional?) notion of the English character.

As I've said before, there would have been none of this hoo-ha had the subject been of Belgian paedophile rings and SPM had made the same comment about Belgians. The context, meaning and intention would have been absolutely clear to everyone except infantile imbeciles with a vendetta to pursue.

Fortunately LMHR, Jonze, c***ick et al will all be forgotten, yet Morrissey's records will continue to be played...in the future when all's well.
 

sarahT

Senior Member
"I don't believe it's a mistake. I think it's conscious, and I think he's gone too far. In our organization, some of the bands have already met and talked about it, and we don't want to be associated with him. We feel it's not helpful to anybody."

What a load of old bollocks, they sound like a group of over earnest fourth formers having a lunchtime meeting. If Morrissey had made the exact same remarks about the French for eating frogs legs and snails no-one would have batted an eyelid. Getting worked up because he said it about the Chinese is an inverted form of racism.
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
I got to the bit where the interviewer approvingly referred to something called "an anti-racist symphony" and had to stop. They're just not credible.

Meanwhile, the freshest quote from Morrissey, that Bowie was "fanatically" gay, is yet another instance of camp overstatement which bolsters the line of argument that he did not, in fact, pick his words as carefully as people claim.
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
Also Tim Jonze (ex NME Editor) said tonight about the case between him and Morrissey: "He (Morrissey) was never going to do anything - he knew we had it all on tape, exactly as printed."

He has Morrissey's voice on tape making remarks, yes, but that wasn't the whole story-- the rest of the story was the NME's presentation of those remarks, which distorted them. Jonze must think his readers are idiots.
 

Tingle3

Member
Surely all the LMHR comments are made out of context if they do not refer explicitly to the absolutely horrific way that animals are treated?
 

dcn

Junior Member
I wonder if the term "sub-species" was somehow used to refer to the Royals during the infamous fox hunting days how LMHR would spin this into racial connotation.

The more this goes on, the more I can't help but believe they are merely using this as a means to garner media exposure for their organization.
 

Worm

Taste the diffidence
I wonder if the term "sub-species" was somehow used to refer to the Royals during the infamous fox hunting days how LMHR would spin this into racial connotation.

The more this goes on, the more I can't help but believe they are merely using this as a means to garner media exposure for their organization.

Even as we speak I'm sure the majority of the Socialist Worker's readers are donating a pound each to LMHR. Ought to pay for a few cups of coffee, at least. :)
 
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