TTY: All The Best Ones Are Dead

Yawn. Current society is rubbish, everything was so much better in my day. We get the message, Grandad.

 

[Jamie]

Yes. Bowie was the one who refused to level with Morrissey and put any animosity that existed behind them.

Morrissey left Bowie's tour without warning, not the other way around. And who knows what, if anything, was said privately between them? Given Morrissey's long history of last-minute walk-offs and stroppy no-shows, I'm inclined to give Bowie the benefit of the doubt. Moreover, the public record has shown that any animus between the two was directed at Bowie by Morrissey. It seems like faulty logic to suggest Bowie owed Morrissey anything.

 

[Anonymous]

Bowie's story is corroborated by Johnny Bridgwood in Mozipedia. He adds the detail that Moz left in the tour bus and the band and crew had to pay their own fares home.

It must have been pretty annoying for Bowie, because there were thousands of refunded tickets, and he had to do the rest of the tour with d-list support acts. It was definitely Morrissey who needed to do the apologising, and I doubt he ever did.

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey left Bowie's tour without warning, not the other way around. And who knows what, if anything, was said privately between them? Given Morrissey's long history of last-minute walk-offs and stroppy no-shows, I'm inclined to give Bowie the benefit of the doubt. Moreover, the public record has shown that any animus between the two was directed at Bowie by Morrissey. It seems like faulty logic to suggest Bowie owed Morrissey anything.

So, he probably did get his feelings hurt by Bowie and ran, Morrissey admits he has a bad temper... fast forward 20 years later people. .. the 2015 tour was very long and he only cancelled once. I have never seen him happier. He was in such a good mood NYE and his New Year's ended very well surrounded by his friends. Is it possible to on solow NOT to pin point ALL of his flaws?

 

[Calamine Lotion]

So, he probably did get his feelings hurt by Bowie and ran, Morrissey admits he has a bad temper... fast forward 20 years later people. .. the 2015 tour was very long and he only cancelled once. I have never seen him happier. He was in such a good mood NYE and his New Year's ended very well surrounded by his friends. Is it possible to on solow NOT to pin point ALL of his flaws?

This is complete speculation but I'd imagine that what happened is that being around David Bowie was a reality check. He is used to being the headliner and he has his share of rabid fans who make him feel like the center of the universe. Nothing wrong with that. You probably have to be slightly self-centered to become a pop star and that's okay. He's done a lot of great work and he deserves the fame he has acquired. But when he is in the same room with David Bowie he might as well be the bassist from Kajagoogoo as far as most of the public and the industry is concerned. In other words he probably did not feel like he was the center of attention every waking moment. And David Bowie might have been a very shrewd and clever artist and businessman, but it's hard to imagine him doing something horrible to Morrissey without it being revealed. What do you imagine happened that hurt his feelings? Bowie only had nice things to say about him and his leaving with the bus was really stupid, irresponsible, and designed to hurt people by taking out his problems on them. Can you imagine waking up to find you've lost your job, you're off the Bowie tour, and you don't even have a ride home?
I think the reason people bring up bad things about him is because there isn't much else to talk about. These embarrassing announcements on TTY and the random slandering of some record business executive, or some botched endorsement deal, but no signs of any new music. There isn't much to talk about that is positive. And I do understand that people may feel they owe Morrissey something. But they go overboard and think he can do no wrong, and so it just encourages people that feel let down by him to argue. Again, there isn't much else to talk about.

 

[hand in glove]

Old, boring, news.

Morrissey left because he wasn't the star. Morrissey left because he was depressed. Morrissey left because he was sick. Morrissey left because David put too much pressure on him. Excuses. But, really, putting two people together like Bowie and Morrissey wasn't a great idea in the first place. Both of them are/were bigger than life. Both love/loved drama, and so they butted heads. The end.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

Morrissey left Bowie's tour without warning, not the other way around. And who knows what, if anything, was said privately between them? Given Morrissey's long history of last-minute walk-offs and stroppy no-shows, I'm inclined to give Bowie the benefit of the doubt. Moreover, the public record has shown that any animus between the two was directed at Bowie by Morrissey. It seems like faulty logic to suggest Bowie owed Morrissey anything.

of course you're inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. everyone is inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. we've heard it all before: morrissey has a bad temper. morrissey is difficult. blah blah blah. well im inclined to give morrissey of the doubt. let me explain why.

first, ill start with some personal history, as is my wont!
from the time i was a toddler until i was about 20 i had severe chronic anxiety. i want to stress that it is now, on it's own, almost completely gone (except for those days when ive spent too long in the house, moving mirrors around to try to gauge the amount my face will change according to the change in lighting, and trying to memorize the lighting and changes so that i can know how to act in situations of different lighting--for example, i cant act too cocky in situations where i know im likely to look shapeless, clunky and rice-pudding bland. but this is an impossible science, because you cant put a lid on changes in lighting; that is, it is very possible that lighting can keep going on varying and supplying one with ever new and unfamiliar faces, a thought which is nothing if not anxiety-producing). for the most part, i think that now i generally seem very calm. people, strangers even, tell me this all the time, which sometimes makes me wonder if 'calm' is code for 'boring' or 'slow'. but i think in reality it's none of these: because i am, or have been, anxious, i have learned to be very measured, and i think this is what people are seeing. anyway. back when i DID have anxiety, there were certain things, inexplicable to anyone else, that i just couldn't do--emphasis on couldn't. i mean, through anxiety i understand the word can't in a way most people will never understood the word cant, not as a physical or outward limitation but as a threshold that ones mind just cant cross, everything at odd angles, an irreconcilable dissonance that cannot be made to make sense.

and then one day things do make sense, and you wonder, if you dont know better, if you arent the one who lived through it, what the hell the problem was. surely all of that trouble i caused was unnecessary? why did i do it? why did things have to be so difficult? why did i have to make things so difficult for people around me? did i enjoy it? why couldnt i just go to school (i never did. and no one cared because i was like, supersmart, naturally)? did i think i was special and deserved to be treated differently? these were all constant refrains i had to live with, and being 9, 10 years old, i had no idea how to answer. i was without language to explain how it really felt, how i simply could not. i found that on the parts of the people around me was a great lack of willingness to understand or give to me any benefit of the doubt. so not only did i have severe anxiety that made certain aspects of life very very difficult, but i had people around me who were willfully reading bad intentions into every anxiety-induced thing i did, which assured that i was also invested with no small degree of guilt about things which i really essentially had no control over.

now i have never experienced depression, at least not chronic, clinical depression, but im sure there are ways in which anxiety and depression are the same (although i would take anxiety over depression any day). and didnt i hear somewhere that morrissey was experiencing great depression during this stage of his life that he was touring with bowie? and so i wonder if maybe the situation with morrissey, with his depression, was such that he felt that for whatever reason he just couldnt finish the tour. its seem pretty obvious that simply leaving and taking the tour bus, while being kind of hilarious on one level, also seems like a desperate act. and it amazes me how people think it follows that if a person commits a desperate act than that person must be selfish, reckless, uncaring, without regard for those around them. possibly the desperate act is one of self-preservation, but it is rarely committed out of selfishness, recklessness or lack of caring or regard for others. so i imagine, if that was the cause of morrissey having to leave the tour (and this is just speculation because obviously i really dont know) and with people reading such negative intentions into what he did (as they tiresomely always do), the situation for morrissey, the feelings in regards to bowie, might be very very complicated. if it were me, and if i felt because of a condition that put me at a disadvantage, a condition that people who manage to live with--and especially those who do so successfully--deserve praise and respect for, i was being condemned and made to look like the "bad guy" in the light of someone else, who maybe doesnt have that condition, and who is instead getting all the praise, for no other reason than because maybe things were naturally easier for him, i would probably be more than a little resentful, no matter if i still had admiration or affection for the man or not. i think that is just human nature.

i feel like depression, like anxiety, is probably a world which wholly makes everyting convoluted and upside down and backwards and wrong, and sometimes you dont have the language to explain it--as i didnt at 10 years old--or you know that no explanation will ever be enough, and so you simply fall back on silence. does anyone have the right to, in their speculations--which could very well be wrong--be disappointed about morrisseys personal feelings or attitude about bowie? whether or not this was the cause of morrisseys leaving the tour, there is one thing i have learned well about people with anxiety and depression and it is this: you have no right to ask them to be anything more than they are.

 

[Calamine Lotion]

The difference is that I'm on topic.

Hey look, it's a visual of most of your posts.

- - - Updated - - -

Old, boring, news.

Morrissey left because he wasn't the star. Morrissey left because he was depressed. Morrissey left because he was sick. Morrissey left because David put too much pressure on him. Excuses. But, really, putting two people together like Bowie and Morrissey wasn't a great idea in the first place. Both of them are/were bigger than life. Both love/loved drama, and so they butted heads. The end.

And one of them had a grip on reality.

 

[Anonymous]

of course you're inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. everyone is inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. we've heard it all before: morrissey has a bad temper. morrissey is difficult. blah blah blah. well im inclined to give morrissey of the doubt. let me explain why.

first, ill start with some personal history, as is my wont!
from the time i was a toddler until i was about 20 i had severe chronic anxiety. i want to stress that it is now, on it's own, almost completely gone (except for those days when ive spent too long in the house, moving mirrors around to try to gauge the amount my face will change according to the change in lighting, and trying to memorize the lighting and changes so that i can know how to act in situations of different lighting--for example, i cant act too cocky in situations where i know im likely to look shapeless, clunky and rice-pudding bland. but this is an impossible science, because you cant put a lid on changes in lighting; that is, it is very possible that lighting can keep going on varying and supplying one with ever new and unfamiliar faces, a thought which is nothing if not anxiety-producing). for the most part, i think that now i generally seem very calm. people, strangers even, tell me this all the time, which sometimes makes me wonder if 'calm' is code for 'boring' or 'slow'. but i think in reality it's none of these: because i am, or have been, anxious, i have learned to be very measured, and i think this is what people are seeing. anyway. back when i DID have anxiety, there were certain things, inexplicable to anyone else, that i just couldn't do--emphasis on couldn't. i mean, through anxiety i understand the word can't in a way most people will never understood the word cant, not as a physical or outward limitation but as a threshold that ones mind just cant cross, everything at odd angles, an irreconcilable dissonance that cannot be made to make sense.

and then one day things do make sense, and you wonder, if you dont know better, if you arent the one who lived through it, what the hell the problem was. surely all of that trouble i caused was unnecessary? why did i do it? why did things have to be so difficult? why did i have to make things so difficult for people around me? did i enjoy it? why couldnt i just go to school (i never did. and no one cared because i was like, supersmart, naturally)? did i think i was special and deserved to be treated differently? these were all constant refrains i had to live with, and being 9, 10 years old, i had no idea how to answer. i was without language to explain how it really felt, how i simply could not. i found that on the parts of the people around me was a great lack of willingness to understand or give to me any benefit of the doubt. so not only did i have severe anxiety that made certain aspects of life very very difficult, but i had people around me who were willfully reading bad intentions into every anxiety-induced thing i did, which assured that i was also invested with no small degree of guilt about things which i really essentially had no control over.

now i have never experienced depression, at least not chronic, clinical depression, but im sure there are ways in which anxiety and depression are the same (although i would take anxiety over depression any day). and didnt i hear somewhere that morrissey was experiencing great depression during this stage of his life that he was touring with bowie? and so i wonder if maybe the situation with morrissey, with his depression, was such that he felt that for whatever reason he just couldnt finish the tour. its seem pretty obvious that simply leaving and taking the tour bus, while being kind of hilarious on one level, also seems like a desperate act. and it amazes me how people think it follows that if a person commits a desperate act than that person must be selfish, reckless, uncaring, without regard for those around them. possibly the desperate act is one of self-preservation, but it is rarely committed out of selfishness, recklessness or lack of caring or regard for others. so i imagine, if that was the cause of morrissey having to leave the tour (and this is just speculation because obviously i really dont know) and with people reading such negative intentions into what he did (as they tiresomely always do), the situation for morrissey, the feelings in regards to bowie, might be very very complicated. if it were me, and if i felt because of a condition that put me at a disadvantage, a condition that people who manage to live with--and especially those who do so successfully--deserve praise and respect for, i was being condemned and made to look like the "bad guy" in the light of someone else, who maybe doesnt have that condition, and who is instead getting all the praise, for no other reason than because maybe things were naturally easier for him, i would probably be more than a little resentful, no matter if i still had admiration or affection for the man or not. i think that is just human nature.

i feel like depression, like anxiety, is probably a world which wholly makes everyting convoluted and upside down and backwards and wrong, and sometimes you dont have the language to explain it--as i didnt at 10 years old--or you know that no explanation will ever be enough, and so you simply fall back on silence. does anyone have the right to, in their speculations--which could very well be wrong--be disappointed about morrisseys personal feelings or attitude about bowie? whether or not this was the cause of morrisseys leaving the tour, there is one thing i have learned well about people with anxiety and depression and it is this: you have no right to ask them to be anything more than they are.

I think it was an act of self-preservation. Whatever the reason, he felt the need to get away. Maybe even he didn't know exactly why, but felt an instinct to do so. I also wonder if Morrissey felt embarrassed about
having to deal with a bout of depression around someone like Bowie, who he admired and idolized.

 

[hand in glove]

And one of them had a grip on reality.

I'm not speaking ill of David and I'm not sticking up for Morrissey's behavior. This is just what happens when you have two people with large ego's in the same room.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not speaking ill of David and I'm not sticking up for Morrissey's behavior. This is just what happens when you have two people with large ego's in the same room.

But if Jo Slee spoke the truth then I don't think that a large ego got in Moz' way at this point in his life. It would have been the opposite, actually. Or do you say that Jo Slee lied?

 

[countthree]

I'm not speaking ill of David and I'm not sticking up for Morrissey's behavior. This is just what happens when you have two people with large ego's in the same room.

What about drug abuse? It's very hard to tolerate such condition when you are not involved. Everybody knows it's a serious illness and you can't blame the sufferer, but that doesn't make it easier to cope with to others. It's a mere speculation, but as everybody is fantasizing about alleged Morrissey's mental conditions, I would like to bring to the table something that actually happenened during Bowie's life. It's not a secret, he admitted it. Usually addicts are very charming people, it's very difficult to blame them for the hell they make go through to those who are around them.

 

[nicky wire's legs]

What about drug abuse? It's very hard to tolerate such condition when you are not involved. Everybody knows it's a serious illness and you can't blame the sufferer, but that doesn't make it easier to cope with to others. It's a mere speculation, but as everybody is fantasizing about alleged Morrissey's mental conditions, I would like to bring to the table something that actually happenened during Bowie's life. It's not a secret, he admitted it. Usually addicts are very charming people, it's very difficult to blame them for the hell they make go through to those who are around them.

didnt david get clean in the late 70's?

 

[countthree]

didnt david get clean in the late 70's?

We'll never know, he had to fight the custody of his son with his ex wife during the eighties. He couldn't have admitted otherwise.
I know it's a very unpopular hypothesis.

 

[hand in glove]

But if Jo Slee spoke the truth then I don't think that a large ego got in Moz' way at this point in his life. It would have been the opposite, actually. Or do you say that Jo Slee lied?

Morrissey, depressed or not, has always had a huge ego. One cannot be in the entertainment industry without it. Think.

What about drug abuse? It's very hard to tolerate such condition when you are not involved. Everybody knows it's a serious illness and you can't blame the sufferer, but that doesn't make it easier to cope with to others. It's a mere speculation, but as everybody is fantasizing about alleged Morrissey's mental conditions, I would like to bring to the table something that actually happenened during Bowie's life. It's not a secret, he admitted it. Usually addicts are very charming people, it's very difficult to blame them for the hell they make go through to those who are around them.

I'm not fantasizing about Morrissey mental conditions. It is a known fact he suffers from depression. You seem to get ridiculously defensive when someone points out a flaw in Morrissey's personality. I adore Moz more than you'll ever know, but together with depression, his need to feel equal to David, and possibly David's enormous demands, it is plausible that Morrissey felt that he could not or did not want to continue on with the tour. I don't think it was entirely Bowie's fault..which is what you are hinting at.

 

[countthree]

Morrissey, depressed or not, has always had a huge ego. One cannot be in the entertainment industry without it. Think.



I'm not fantasizing about Morrissey mental conditions. It is a known fact he suffers from depression. You seem to get ridiculously defensive when someone points out a flaw in Morrissey's personality. I adore Moz more than you'll ever know, but together with depression, his need to feel equal to David, and possibly David's enormous demands, it is plausible that Morrissey felt that he could not or did not want to continue on with the tour. I don't think it was entirely Bowie's fault..which is what you are hinting at.

Maybe in some comments I'm very defensive. But here I was intending to contemplate another possibility. Sometimes who leaves a situation is not the responsible, or at least not the only one.

 

[Flibberty]

Morrissey, depressed or not, has always had a huge ego. One cannot be in the entertainment industry without it. Think.

Yes and one certainly can't do Morrissey's job without it. How often do you see the phrase "modest frontman"?

 

[Anonymous]

Often what seems huge ego isn't REALLY huge ego ... human beings are complicated.

 

[Anonymous]

of course you're inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. everyone is inclined to give bowie the benefit of the doubt. we've heard it all before: morrissey has a bad temper. morrissey is difficult. blah blah blah. well im inclined to give morrissey of the doubt. let me explain why.

first, ill start with some personal history, as is my wont!
from the time i was a toddler until i was about 20 i had severe chronic anxiety. i want to stress that it is now, on it's own, almost completely gone (except for those days when ive spent too long in the house, moving mirrors around to try to gauge the amount my face will change according to the change in lighting, and trying to memorize the lighting and changes so that i can know how to act in situations of different lighting--for example, i cant act too cocky in situations where i know im likely to look shapeless, clunky and rice-pudding bland. but this is an impossible science, because you cant put a lid on changes in lighting; that is, it is very possible that lighting can keep going on varying and supplying one with ever new and unfamiliar faces, a thought which is nothing if not anxiety-producing). for the most part, i think that now i generally seem very calm. people, strangers even, tell me this all the time, which sometimes makes me wonder if 'calm' is code for 'boring' or 'slow'. but i think in reality it's none of these: because i am, or have been, anxious, i have learned to be very measured, and i think this is what people are seeing. anyway. back when i DID have anxiety, there were certain things, inexplicable to anyone else, that i just couldn't do--emphasis on couldn't. i mean, through anxiety i understand the word can't in a way most people will never understood the word cant, not as a physical or outward limitation but as a threshold that ones mind just cant cross, everything at odd angles, an irreconcilable dissonance that cannot be made to make sense.

and then one day things do make sense, and you wonder, if you dont know better, if you arent the one who lived through it, what the hell the problem was. surely all of that trouble i caused was unnecessary? why did i do it? why did things have to be so difficult? why did i have to make things so difficult for people around me? did i enjoy it? why couldnt i just go to school (i never did. and no one cared because i was like, supersmart, naturally)? did i think i was special and deserved to be treated differently? these were all constant refrains i had to live with, and being 9, 10 years old, i had no idea how to answer. i was without language to explain how it really felt, how i simply could not. i found that on the parts of the people around me was a great lack of willingness to understand or give to me any benefit of the doubt. so not only did i have severe anxiety that made certain aspects of life very very difficult, but i had people around me who were willfully reading bad intentions into every anxiety-induced thing i did, which assured that i was also invested with no small degree of guilt about things which i really essentially had no control over.

now i have never experienced depression, at least not chronic, clinical depression, but im sure there are ways in which anxiety and depression are the same (although i would take anxiety over depression any day). and didnt i hear somewhere that morrissey was experiencing great depression during this stage of his life that he was touring with bowie? and so i wonder if maybe the situation with morrissey, with his depression, was such that he felt that for whatever reason he just couldnt finish the tour. its seem pretty obvious that simply leaving and taking the tour bus, while being kind of hilarious on one level, also seems like a desperate act. and it amazes me how people think it follows that if a person commits a desperate act than that person must be selfish, reckless, uncaring, without regard for those around them. possibly the desperate act is one of self-preservation, but it is rarely committed out of selfishness, recklessness or lack of caring or regard for others. so i imagine, if that was the cause of morrissey having to leave the tour (and this is just speculation because obviously i really dont know) and with people reading such negative intentions into what he did (as they tiresomely always do), the situation for morrissey, the feelings in regards to bowie, might be very very complicated. if it were me, and if i felt because of a condition that put me at a disadvantage, a condition that people who manage to live with--and especially those who do so successfully--deserve praise and respect for, i was being condemned and made to look like the "bad guy" in the light of someone else, who maybe doesnt have that condition, and who is instead getting all the praise, for no other reason than because maybe things were naturally easier for him, i would probably be more than a little resentful, no matter if i still had admiration or affection for the man or not. i think that is just human nature.

i feel like depression, like anxiety, is probably a world which wholly makes everyting convoluted and upside down and backwards and wrong, and sometimes you dont have the language to explain it--as i didnt at 10 years old--or you know that no explanation will ever be enough, and so you simply fall back on silence. does anyone have the right to, in their speculations--which could very well be wrong--be disappointed about morrisseys personal feelings or attitude about bowie? whether or not this was the cause of morrisseys leaving the tour, there is one thing i have learned well about people with anxiety and depression and it is this: you have no right to ask them to be anything more than they are.

Please, I beg you, take your meds or we will have to do an intervention

 

[Calamine Lotion]

What about drug abuse? It's very hard to tolerate such condition when you are not involved. Everybody knows it's a serious illness and you can't blame the sufferer, but that doesn't make it easier to cope with to others. It's a mere speculation, but as everybody is fantasizing about alleged Morrissey's mental conditions, I would like to bring to the table something that actually happenened during Bowie's life. It's not a secret, he admitted it. Usually addicts are very charming people, it's very difficult to blame them for the hell they make go through to those who are around them.

David Bowie's drug abuse was well behind him at that point. Besides even if that had been the case it wouldn't explain abandoning everyone. When David Bowie was on drugs it was pretty obvious, and he didn't look healthy as he did in the period we're talking about. He was also, remarkably, able to make all his scheduled appearances and produce some of the greatest music in several genres, some of which he was pioneering at the time.

 

[DGSE]

Once again amen to that Mr Morrissey.