Everyone wants to know if Morrissey is straight or gay

[thewarroom]

Staring in the window of the shop that never opens
Planning my selection from all the treats inside
Should I take as I desire - oh shall I, oh shall I ?
Or should I hang around to be enticed inside ?

I'm trying to explain to myself
I can have both
I'm trying to explain to the voice inside
I can have both
I can have both
There's nobody around to say no
Who've brain-washed the small shy boy inside
He doesn't know he can have both


Smiling through the window to the one who never serves you
I've not been feeling myself tonight
Should I take as I feel like it - well shall I, oh shall I ?
Or should I wait and hope to be dragged inside ?
Oh ...


I'm trying to explain to myself
I can have both
I'm trying to explain to the voice inside
I can have both
I can have both
There's nobody around to say no
Who've brain-washed the small shy boy inside
He doesn't know he can have both


I can have both
There's no need to choose
Because
I can have both
There's no need to choose
I can have both
There's no need to choose
Because
I can have both
There's no need to choose
I can have both
There's no need to choose

That song is about strawberry and vanilla ice cream and nothing more.

 

[nightandday]

I didn't know that - that's very telling then. I still haven't gotten around to reading that book, though I think it's available on the Internet somewhere for free.

Download it from: http://www.sendspace.com/file/uovojg

Judge for yourself if Morrissey is 'trying to convince people that Dead was gay'.

If anything, he suggests Dean was bisexual (which is hardly a rare opinion), but he doesn't make a big deal of the issue.

 

[nightandday]

During the Smiths time I think it added mystry to his public image and he feed of the attention. He likes to be coy. Today I think he feels its a moot point and he doesn't want to boxed into a certain class or group. I also think his own views on his sexuality were not solid until later in life. Being gay isn't as black and white as being straight. There is a lot of personal confusion and frustration. I am sure he also considers his family's feelings too. Business reasons too, he wants to court a gay audence and not turn off his mexican base. Lots and lots of reasons. I never had the guts to out right ask him, however a close friend did and he is keeping the response private.

Kumo

Or maybe... he just isn't gay?

Just a thought.

 

[nightandday]

Oh yes, Morrissey has certainly killed a great number of people. But they aren't buried in Betty's backyard. In the ultimate betrayal of his public image...he ate them. We'll have the truth laid out right here in Moz-solo before we're done, oh yes! Lawyers be damned! (Johnny Rogan, call me.)

Hey, it was not a betrayal of his public image! He said he doesn't eat meat unless it's human flesh.

 

[nightandday]

I watched the Living Icon interview yesterday and the interviewer says he was talking to fans on the street. He suggested the men identified with the true to life emotional experiences expressed in the music and the girls thought he was "fit", they fancied him. I was annoyed at the simplification he was offering but also interested that Morrissey began to reply something like "did you have the nerve to.... " and then gave up when interrupted.
...and I imagined he was about to say "put the questions to the men and women the other way around" . I may be wrong, but it would fit with the stance he has always maintained, and as you most eloquently put above.

yes, that was such an oversimplification. It's even a bit offensive to suggest that women are his fans only because they fancy him, and not because they identify with the emotional experiences expressed in the songs. And who says that you can't both fancy someone and identify with them?

 

[nightandday]

That's interesting, I hadn't seen that. I'm sure you're right about Morrissey's question.

It's exactly that kind of thinking on Morrissey's part that I'm talking about. People play this game, trying to guess if Morrissey's gay. Well, let's go back to his first appearances in '83 and '84. In terms of both packaging and content, "Hand In Glove" was possibly the gayest single in the history of pop music. So were "This Charming Man", "What Difference Does It Make?" and the debut LP. I'm sorry, no one gets any gold stars for figuring out that Morrissey is gay.

Except that, in the press, at the same time those records were released, Morrissey was strenuously denying that he was gay. Why? He might have thought that being a gay group was commercial suicide, but why leave all those clues? There are probably some clever ways of hinting you're gay without putting a nude man on the cover of your debut single. The Smiths were his "life raft", he said, so why jeopardize anything like that, if indeed he was worried about the gay stigma?

The point was never to conceal. The point was to reveal a new perspective, which he did brilliantly. To me the primary beauty in Morrissey's songs is that he confronts you with so many clues about his sexuality but overtly denies categorization. It makes you more thoughtful and open to what's actually there in the songs, instead of playing a stupid game of "Is he or isn't he?" as if he were Matt Damon. I liked The Smiths because Morrissey expanded what was possible for me, a straight guy, to like and to associate myself with.

A rejoinder might be, yes, that's what Morrissey wanted to express in his songs but it was always an artistic strategy. In private he was resolutely gay. My answer to that is Morrissey's honesty. The quality about his music all of us recognize and love, I think, is his honesty. He loved singers who stood absolutely naked before their audience, helplessly expressing themselves because they could do nothing else, and I think that's exactly what he's done: "I am a living sign".

Because of his honesty and integrity I expect that when the time comes, and he's sure of himself, he will come forth and speak the truth. And the truth will likely be him saying, "I'm gay". But he will do so in a way that will be real and honest and will not diminish one iota of what he's been saying for almost a quarter century. He will replace one truth with another truth, not discarding possibly the worst disguise in the history of history.

Somehow I really doubt that...

You're really contradicting yourself here.

Because of his honesty and integrity and the fact that he is already sure of himself and has been for long time, he will not 'tell the truth when the time comes' because he's already been telling the truth all those years. The 'worst disguise in history' is so bad because it was never a disguise. But people just won't accept it.

 

[nightandday]

Morrissey has a certain group of fans that can't seem to deal with the obvious.
We all know who they are...

Really?

Whites are already the minority in Los Angeles, and there is no one looking out for our rights.

Well, well... This discussion has really moved into an interesting direction...

 

[nightandday]

I hadn't read this thread for a while... I feel so enlightened now!!!

Some people have asked whether Morrissey was sexually abused as a child now!!! Come on, play the game ffs.

I'm waiting for some of our more fantasist friends to reveal Moz is actually a paedophile due to this sexual abuse (its in the songs... its all in the songs! And Pete Townshend was mooted to produce Your Arsenal. Any other tenuous links gratefully recieved to add to the evidence)

Morrissey probably leads a normal routine when HES NOT TOURING.
But with that photo in The People it is obvious that wearing flat caps now means you're a dirty old queen hanging round outside school gates for the school bell not to ring again.

Incidentally Morrissey is also culpable in an estimated 100 Harold Shipman murders due to having walked through Hyde, Moz won't apologise for the Chinese Cultural Revolution (Mao=Moz, both ahve 3 letters) and rumours that MOrrissey was actually the first man on the moon can't yet be substantiated as conspiracy theorists reckon it was all filmed in Arizona. And Morrissey was sat in a bedroom watching Coronation Street according to Johnny Rogan.

You forgot all those lyrics that suggest that Morrissey is a dangerous potential (if not actual) rapist! Look at the clues:


"You ask me the time, but I sense something more
and I would like to give you what I think you're asking for..."

"I don't owe you anything,
but you owe me something, repay me now..."


"Crash into my arms,
I want you
you don't agree, but you don't refuse
I know you..."

The man is an obvious sex offender!!! Almost as bad as Howard Devoto ("I will drug you and f*** you on the permafrost"!)

And not to mention all the clues that he is a vicious serial killer, which I'm sure you're all aware of - Jack The Ripper, The Last Of the Famous International Playboys... "I never wanted to kill, I'm not naturally evil, such things I do just ot make myself more attractive to you..."

 

[nightandday]

Morrissey is gay, like I because:

The woman of his dreams, well there never was one (coz I like boys)

I will never marry

and now I feeel his hand on my knee, dear God, PLEASE help me.

-

The end

I will never marry either, because I never wanted it. I don't believe in marriage.

And the man of my dreams never came either, so I'm starting to think that 'true love' might not exist and sometimes I think there might not be the right man for me anywhere at all.

So, I suppose I'm lesbian. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

The problem is, I don't want to have sex with women... So what should I do?

 

[nightandday]

Oh I agree with you 1000% Reverse racism is a very serious and dangerous problem in the US and Europe. However, it is not Politically Correct to say so. I didn't want to court confrontation here.

"Reverse racism"?! There isn' such a thing as 'reverse racism', there's just racism, period. Racism = prejudice because of someone's 'race' or (in the broader meaning) ethnicity, whatever that may be.

 

[nightandday]

All the ones who have been debated about are gay, the ones who haven't are not.

I just need to say that this is one of the most hilarious things I've ever read here. Thank you for making me laugh my head off.

 

[nightandday]

I don't know WHY people keep ignoring what HE says about it. Here is the answer that I feel should have cleared this up the moment it came out:

'One of my physical encounters was with a man. That was 10 years ago. It was just a very brief, absurd and amusing moment,' adds Morrissey, in his best Oscar Wilde. 'It wasn't love. I have never experienced that.'

Has he slept with women? 'Yes. I feel completely open. If I met somebody tomorrow, male or female, and they loved me and I loved them, I would openly proclaim that I loved them, regardless of what they were. I think people should be loved whatever their gender, whatever their age. I am open to everything. I accept that my experience is different from that of most men. But I feel reasonably normal. I don't feel like a freak. My world is bigger. I never lived in a small town with small morals. I don't want to take drugs. I don't, so far as I am aware, want to take part in activities such as group sex. I'm actually a reasonably conservative, boring person.




There. That's where it's at, for those who care, Morrissey cleared it up- the end!

So... I still have hopes!!!

Hopes for what, making him participate in group sex?

 

[nightandday]

Aye, me too - I'm very sceptical. They seem very contrived to me. Morrissey's wit is more subtle & clever. But then again, he would have been quite young when he wrote those.

However, I'm surprised how many have accepted these at face value and believe they are genuine, no questions asked.
I'd love them to be legitimate, but I'm not convinced yet.

I was sceptical before I saw them, I've believed they're authenthic since I read them, because

a) the handwriting is Morrissey-like
b) the style is very Morrissey-like
3) the content is very Morrissey-like

If they're fake, then the person who made them is the world's best Morrissey impersonator.

I don't find them contrived at all, and the wit is very Morrissey-like. What is it that you that you find unsubtle, stupid, or contrived?

 

[imogen11]

I was sceptical before I saw them, I've believed they're authenthic since I read them, because

a) the handwriting is Morrissey-like
b) the style is very Morrissey-like
3) the content is very Morrissey-like

If they're fake, then the person who made them is the world's best Morrissey impersonator.

I don't find them contrived at all, and the wit is very Morrissey-like. What is it that you that you find unsubtle, stupid, or contrived?

It's nice to have you back, Nightandday I don't find the letters 'stupid', per se. I don't know what it is about them...I'm just sceptical, but I may very well be wrong.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

There has been speculation that M. was sexually exploited or abused as a child or teenager- I feel there is strong textual evidence that he was. This Charming Man (which is so laden with class references, also) and Reel Around the Fountain, plus Headmaster Ritual ("please excuse me from gym
I've got this terrible cold coming on
he grabs and devours
kicks me in the showers
and he grabs and devours
I wanna go home
I don't want to stay")


And I believe also that he is gay. I mean, why Piccadilly Palare? Why Hand in Glove? There are too, too many hints. Except... I can see not coming out in 1984. But it's 2007. Why wouldn't you come out, now? I actually have less and less respect for people in the public eye who don't come out. Admittedly, M. does not say that he isn't gay or straight, even still. Which is just getting coy and annoying. OUT with it! Show some self-respect. Will I be flamed for that? I hope not, it's my own opinion.

The candy store song is interesting- I don't know that one. It does sound like he's desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't 100% gay, though.

I love the man, either way.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

And let me just say I hope no one ever drags out letters I wrote as a teenager and tries to use them to illustrate what I am like- I am not at all the same person.

Luckily the one who had my letters threw them away. At least he said I did when I asked for them back! Also the same man who introduced me to the Smiths. Odd, that.

 

[Amy]

There has been speculation that M. was sexually exploited or abused as a child or teenager- I feel there is strong textual evidence that he was. QUOTE]


Oh for the love of Christ, take this hurtful, unsubstantiated and potentially damaging gossip elsewhere.

 

[Hellie]

There has been speculation that M. was sexually exploited or abused as a child or teenager- I feel there is strong textual evidence that he was. This Charming Man (which is so laden with class references, also) and Reel Around the Fountain, plus Headmaster Ritual ("please excuse me from gym
I've got this terrible cold coming on
he grabs and devours
kicks me in the showers
and he grabs and devours
I wanna go home
I don't want to stay")


And I believe also that he is gay. I mean, why Piccadilly Palare? Why Hand in Glove? There are too, too many hints. Except... I can see not coming out in 1984. But it's 2007. Why wouldn't you come out, now? I actually have less and less respect for people in the public eye who don't come out. Admittedly, M. does not say that he isn't gay or straight, even still. Which is just getting coy and annoying. OUT with it! Show some self-respect. Will I be flamed for that? I hope not, it's my own opinion.

The candy store song is interesting- I don't know that one. It does sound like he's desperately trying to convince himself that he isn't 100% gay, though.

I love the man, either way.

Your opinions are verging on the obscene.However you have a right to them..If he comes here I dread to think what he`d make of them though.I should think he`d be hurt .That to me counts a great deal,perhaps it shouldn`t. But it does.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

How is it hurtful? It is speculation, and you cannot deny that Morrissey wrote of a possibly coercive relationship between a much older and a much younger person in several songs.

You don't think M actually reads this, do you? Besides, did he not say, "I am open, it's all in the songs?" And he also has said that his first sexual experience happened when he was 12 or 13. I would maintain that 12-13 year olds are not capable of having a truly consensual sexual relationship. There is no such thing as consent for a person that young. Sexual abuse often leads to problems in developing a healthy adult sexuality. It all adds up. And, it actually doesn't reflect at all on him. You can't always control what people do to you. You can only potentially control your reaction to it.

Edited to add: the words are his, not mine. I only read them.

 

[nightandday]

How is it hurtful? It is speculation, and you cannot deny that Morrissey wrote of a possibly coercive relationship between a much older and a much younger person in several songs.

You don't think M actually reads this, do you? Besides, did he not say, "I am open, it's all in the songs?" And he also has said that his first sexual experience happened when he was 12 or 13. I would maintain that 12-13 year olds are not capable of having a truly consensual sexual relationship. There is no such thing as consent for a person that young. Sexual abuse often leads to problems in developing a healthy adult sexuality. It all adds up. And, it actually doesn't reflect at all on him. You can't always control what people do to you. You can only potentially control your reaction to it.

Edited to add: the words are his, not mine. I only read them.

So, if they had sex with a person who was also 12 or 13, they were both coersed? Who abused whom then?