Four letter words

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

I'm afraid I disagree regarding 'Please, Please, Please' Let Me Get What I Want'. Janice Long played The Smiths version just last night and it sounded as sublime as ever, but as it played I thought to myself that the recent Morrissey lyric tweek was only a matter of coming clean. The song is basically about having who he wants, it always was. Youthful Moz was just a tad more reserved. One could say more subtle or romantic, windswept, interesting, etcetera. But as a fifty year old human being perhaps he just thought 'f*** it, say it as I see it'.
Rather than finding it clumsy, I found the recent live version to be all the more poignant because of the comparison with the original. In the sense of a fifty year old man conversing with his twenty five year old self. I certainly didn't think 'why are you murdering this?' The voice singing the words was more beautiful than it had ever been.
As to the wider point, I find a different kind of poetry in the starkness of matureMoz lyricism. The poetry inherent in a man in the autumn of his years facing down some uncomfortable truths, dispensing with subtlety and writing boldly, and, more so than ever, singing as if his life depended on it. Would you really want him to be writing in the same lyrical style as his 25 year old version of himself? And part of the enduring appeal of Morrissey, to me, is his continual converstaion with his skinnymalink former lyrical self. Each shift and manoeuvre in style reflects back on his earlier work and says something new and fascinating about the artist.
Or maybe I'm just a bitter old scrote too

Spot on.

 

[Mozza220559]

Imagine him whispering an invitation for a quick romp in you ear the northern way? : passesout:

He'd say, "Come on love, I'm on prod here, let me give yer twat a poke!"

Such a dreamboat

 

[Mozza220559]

Are you kidding? That's what clinches it for me every time. (Well, I am a whore...)

I know Morrissey is an animal lover, but I don't think he'd ever f*** a monkey.

 

[Amy]

Please let's not have this argument again.

I think we should all accept it's '(mumble mumble) Tony' & move on.

(Even though it is 'f***ed up Tony')

Well, I've always heard it as "soft touch" and I still do - I also think that the lyric fits in better with the previous descriptions ("gullible Tony" etc) than 'f***ed-up'.

 

[Anaesthesine]

As to the wider point, I find a different kind of poetry in the starkness of matureMoz lyricism. The poetry inherent in a man in the autumn of his years facing down some uncomfortable truths, dispensing with subtlety and writing boldly, and, more so than ever, singing as if his life depended on it. Would you really want him to be writing in the same lyrical style as his 25 year old version of himself? And part of the enduring appeal of Morrissey, to me, is his continual converstaion with his skinnymalink former lyrical self. Each shift and manoeuvre in style reflects back on his earlier work and says something new and fascinating about the artist.
Or maybe I'm just a bitter old scrote too

Well said Joe.

Sometimes I feel this way; Morrissey's third act has been both fascinating and poignant, if only as an example of how a brilliant artistic mind handles the inevitable depredations of age, while somehow maintaining (with dignity intact) some of the illusions, defiance and glamour of youth. It's a fascinating process for all of us, and in Morrissey it is (as with most things) writ large.

Of course he is increasingly bellicose, and his elegant subtleties are mostly a thing of the past. I miss that as much as anyone, but I recognize that all stages of life have their inherent fascination, and Morrissey is still good company, despite the fact that his formerly seductive, elegant innuendos have hardened into occasionally bitter, bombastic tirades.

He's my favorite curmudgeon.

 

[Media Whore]

I know Morrissey is an animal lover, but I don't think he'd ever f*** a monkey.

I'll have you know I spent quite a bit of time on my make-up. You should see me without! Bleurgh.

 

[joe frady]

just one more thing...
I've been thinking about this lately. It doesn't relate entirely to the four-letter word thing, or Morrissey's perceived loss of subtley in a fog of bitterness as the passing years refuse to slow, because as I outlined before I don't see that as a fault, but somewhere in all this comes the question of forgiveness.
If one fell for Morrissey as hard as some of us around here did, then you kind of end up being in it for the long haul, I feel. The emotional and psychological bonds that formed back in those box bedrooms, dancing your legs down to the knees, are not loosened lightly. So one forgives certain character flaws or lapses of judgement or denim clad LP sleeves, etcetera.
I can't be sure of course, but I don't think this happens with....Level 42. I wait to be corrected. I don't think it happens with many artists actually.
And so it goes on. We go on. Is this just a fancy way of excusing blind adoration and fawning idolatry? I really don't think so. The other day I was listening again to the Desert Island Discs interview from last November, probably the best he's given in years, and it just made me remember why I fell in the first place and why I'm trapped now.
Happily so.

 

[Scarlet1987]

just one more thing...
I've been thinking about this lately. It doesn't relate entirely to the four-letter word thing, or Morrissey's perceived loss of subtley in a fog of bitterness as the passing years refuse to slow, because as I outlined before I don't see that as a fault, but somewhere in all this comes the question of forgiveness.
If one fell for Morrissey as hard as some of us around here did, then you kind of end up being in it for the long haul, I feel. The emotional and psychological bonds that formed back in those box bedrooms, dancing your legs down to the knees, are not loosened lightly. So one forgives certain character flaws or lapses of judgement or denim clad LP sleeves, etcetera.
I can't be sure of course, but I don't think this happens with....Level 42. I wait to be corrected. I don't think it happens with many artists actually.
And so it goes on. We go on. Is this just a fancy way of excusing blind adoration and fawning idolatry? I really don't think so. The other day I was listening again to the Desert Island Discs interview from last November, probably the best he's given in years, and it just made me remember why I fell in the first place and why I'm trapped now.
Happily so.

Is that Colin Firth in your sig?

 

[Claudia2006]

just one more thing...
I've been thinking about this lately. It doesn't relate entirely to the four-letter word thing, or Morrissey's perceived loss of subtley in a fog of bitterness as the passing years refuse to slow, because as I outlined before I don't see that as a fault, but somewhere in all this comes the question of forgiveness.
If one fell for Morrissey as hard as some of us around here did, then you kind of end up being in it for the long haul, I feel. The emotional and psychological bonds that formed back in those box bedrooms, dancing your legs down to the knees, are not loosened lightly. So one forgives certain character flaws or lapses of judgement or denim clad LP sleeves, etcetera.
I can't be sure of course, but I don't think this happens with....Level 42. I wait to be corrected. I don't think it happens with many artists actually.
And so it goes on. We go on. Is this just a fancy way of excusing blind adoration and fawning idolatry? I really don't think so. The other day I was listening again to the Desert Island Discs interview from last November, probably the best he's given in years, and it just made me remember why I fell in the first place and why I'm trapped now.
Happily so.

Yes! I agree with everything you said, and regarding the forgiveness part Morrissey has said it himself in an interview. I can't remember the specific interview or the era, but as I recall he said something along the lines of "if you like someone, you can forgive them anything." (Maybe he said love...)

The context and degree of emotion is obviously very different, but I don't see a "relationship" with Morrissey through his music as being much different from being in a long term relationship with a spouse or lover or dear friend - you don't see eye to eye on everything, there are things about the other person which might drive you completely insane if you focus on them too much, but your connection and love survives because of what you have in common. If you feel a strong emotional bond, you can see that the things which make that person more special to you than any other person in the world are still there even as you both change through the years. Of course this would be true of a singer who writes honestly about the difficulties and joys of life, and not so true of a singer or band who write generic lyrics with no real meaning or depth.

 

[joe frady]

Is that Colin Firth in your sig?

Yes...

 

[Girl-with-the-Thorn]

just one more thing...
I've been thinking about this lately. It doesn't relate entirely to the four-letter word thing, or Morrissey's perceived loss of subtley in a fog of bitterness as the passing years refuse to slow, because as I outlined before I don't see that as a fault, but somewhere in all this comes the question of forgiveness.
If one fell for Morrissey as hard as some of us around here did, then you kind of end up being in it for the long haul, I feel. The emotional and psychological bonds that formed back in those box bedrooms, dancing your legs down to the knees, are not loosened lightly. So one forgives certain character flaws or lapses of judgement or denim clad LP sleeves, etcetera.
I can't be sure of course, but I don't think this happens with....Level 42. I wait to be corrected. I don't think it happens with many artists actually.
And so it goes on. We go on. Is this just a fancy way of excusing blind adoration and fawning idolatry? I really don't think so. The other day I was listening again to the Desert Island Discs interview from last November, probably the best he's given in years, and it just made me remember why I fell in the first place and why I'm trapped now.
Happily so.

Yes! I agree with everything you said, and regarding the forgiveness part Morrissey has said it himself in an interview. I can't remember the specific interview or the era, but as I recall he said something along the lines of "if you like someone, you can forgive them anything." (Maybe he said love...)

The context and degree of emotion is obviously very different, but I don't see a "relationship" with Morrissey through his music as being much different from being in a long term relationship with a spouse or lover or dear friend - you don't see eye to eye on everything, there are things about the other person which might drive you completely insane if you focus on them too much, but your connection and love survives because of what you have in common. If you feel a strong emotional bond, you can see that the things which make that person more special to you than any other person in the world are still there even as you both change through the years. Of course this would be true of a singer who writes honestly about the difficulties and joys of life, and not so true of a singer or band who write generic lyrics with no real meaning or depth.

I really couldn't have stated my feelings about this any better than both of you have. I feel like I can forgive Morrissey the odd 'Dagenham Dave' or 'Sorry Doesn't Help' simply because of the great affinity and recognition I feel with many features of his personality and lyrics. Lapses in judgement are nothing to me compared to the realisation of my own emotions and the comfort I gain from listening to Morrissey sing and talk. And joe, I agree about the Desert Island Discs interview- despite only being broadcast a year after I discovered The Smiths/solo Moz, it reminded me why I became hooked, and sealed the deal forever. I always feel slightly embarrassed and exposed when I talk about things like this because of the intense emotion and memories that's related to it (although it's even more difficult in real life than on here), but I've said it nevertheless.

 

[MORRIZSEY]

it's a good question. people may give examples of earlier swearing but it's undeniable that his lyrics have become a lot more clumsy in recent years.
on a similar theme, one of my least favourite lyric changes is "let me have who I want" in recent live versions of Please, Please, Please.
how to almost ruin an amazing song (I think Goddard also singles this out in Mozipedia).
why is he doing this? I think he's become a lot more angry and bitter in the last 10 years, and, one might add, for good reason.
a lot of the subtlety and poetry has drained from his lyrics. occasionally, they make a reappearance but it's the exception rather than the rule these days.

I agree with your comments.
In the entire career of The Smiths he used the words Bastard and Arse once. Arse isn't a swear word, and Bastard does not contain four letters, whereas he has used the word 'shit' several times in recent years, in songs and on stage. He also used the 'F' word on stage during a period where he seemed to be emotionally unstable.
It is not a case of these words being offensive so much as the fact that he doesn't/shouldn't need to resort to them to convey a message within a song.
If I'd followed Morrissey for just the last five or ten years then maybe I wouldn't have noticed this change as anything of significance, but having followed for 25 years it was disappointing that he finally chose to use base language. Anyone can swear, but not anyone can write meaningful poetry of his noted standard.

 

[Mr. Tibbles]

It's said that cursing is a sign of a limited vocabulary, and we all know our man does not suffer from that malady. But it's fooking lovely to say fook when one is really arsed! (I'm American - did I type that right?)

 

[CrystalGeezer]

It's said that cursing is a sign of a limited vocabulary, and we all know our man does not suffer from that malady. But it's fooking lovely to say fook when one is really arsed! (I'm American - did I type that right?)

I almost told somebody "I can't be arsed" to do something today and had to stop myself realizing that's only appropriate in England Internet Land.

 

[Barking]

I'll have you know I spent quite a bit of time on my make-up. You should see me without! Bleurgh.

He'd say "Yo moonkey, foncy a fook?" to get your attention, only to nick your pretty necklace. Then he'd do a runner. (-he fancies monkeys in tracksuits, so those should watch their backs...-)

Waste of Gemey Maybelline, if you ask me.