So you think that Morrissey & Marr told Joyce up front, before they even played ONE GIG...hey we're only gonna give you 10% and he said OKAY???
Do you really think ANYBODY is that stupid?
How do feel about Mike Joyce
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So you think that Morrissey & Marr told Joyce up front, before they even played ONE GIG...hey we're only gonna give you 10% and he said OKAY???
Do you really think ANYBODY is that stupid?
A
Alcoholic Afternoons
Guest
That pretty much makes my point. Marr and Moz ran things, the others were being "rock stars."
As I said just because they were morons, doesn't mean Johnny and Morrissey shouldn't have treated them fairly..
Didn't the judge say "Where's the contract?"...Without a contract...it's just Morrissey and Johnny's word against Mike's and I don't believe anybody would verbally agree to such a short shaft...
Johnny paid his share and his moved on....
A
Alcoholic Afternoons
Guest
I don't think it's stupid to agree to 10% of something that was going to be great with or without you. Without Morrissey & Marr, do you think Joyce would have done anything of note, or been discussed on any message board anywhere (not that being discussed on a message board is exactly exciting)?
King Leer
Leering since '97
Okay, I was flippant.
Think of it this way -- if Marr and especially Morrissey were missing from the lineup of The Smiths, the live attendance would've dropped dramatically. This would not have been true of Rourke and Joyce, so in a way them earning 25% of live performance is much more than fair.
The singer and songwriter (which often includes the lead guitarist, but not always) are the main draw and in the case of The Smiths created the whole image of the band.
The problem is there's no way to apply a non-even split when there's no contract -- it has to be equal if nothing is written/said. So, Joyce is not "incorrect" in his lawsuit, but he's ridiculous. He's entitled it, but he doesn't deserve it.
Think of it this way -- if Marr and especially Morrissey were missing from the lineup of The Smiths, the live attendance would've dropped dramatically. This would not have been true of Rourke and Joyce, so in a way them earning 25% of live performance is much more than fair.
The singer and songwriter (which often includes the lead guitarist, but not always) are the main draw and in the case of The Smiths created the whole image of the band.
The problem is there's no way to apply a non-even split when there's no contract -- it has to be equal if nothing is written/said. So, Joyce is not "incorrect" in his lawsuit, but he's ridiculous. He's entitled it, but he doesn't deserve it.
I'm really sure that Joyce visited a psyhic who told him about all the great things The Smiths would achieve...
It doesn't matter what The Smiths would have or would not have been without him...
The Point is that Morrissey & Marr DID NOT tell him he was only going to get 10%...they just paid him as THEY SAW FIT...which is not appropriate
If Morrissey wants to pay Boz and Jesse Monkey shit then that's different because they are HIRED musicians...
From true-to-you.net
Q:
I have always wondered if you play any musical instruments, and if so, which?
Valentina Alavarado
Santiago, Chile
A:
hello Valentina
I honestly don't have the interest. I always wanted to sing, with nothing at all blocking my path to the audience. An instrument is the perfect thing to hide behind - always busy adjusting pedals, fiddling with amp-settings, looking down, and never directly facing the very audience that you are presumably addressing.
Yes, when I was 14, I had a reasonably impressive drum kit, and when I heard Jerry Nolan and saw him on the cover of the New York Dolls' first album, I thought, That's me! Off I go! ... But it wasn't me, and I didn't go anywhere. This year, Deano [ex-drummer] gave me a kit to bash around on, but I think it's probably a bit late for me to suddenly turn up as the new drummer with New Found Glory. And yet ... ?
Musley
wild and free
No disrespect to Mike Joyce, but don't forget they were four young naive lads from Manchester, without a manager for much of the time, trying to be rock stars. They probably didn't really know how the whole business worked. It seems Morrissey and Marr were the more intelligent of the four, I am not saying that they pulled the wool over Joyce's eyes, but he was probably so desparate to "make it" at the time would have accepted anything without question, which is what he invariably did.
Busy Clippers
New Member
I like this thread and voted that Joyce was a good drummer, "was" being the key word here. He long ago ceased to be of interest to me along with the other non-Morrissey ex-Smiths. I bear them no ill will, I simply find their post-Smiths careers musically boring.
Jones
Senior Member
Well according to Dale Hibbert it was made very clear to him he was not an equal member of the band. If they were upfront to him what makes you think they weren't upfront with Rourk and Joyce? And what was that incident about where Morrissey left the studio until Marr had agreed the 10% with the others. Either they discussed it or they didn't and even Joyce has admitted he was told the 10% thing.
Did he tell that on the stand?
Worm
Taste the diffidence
He did?
Jones
Senior Member
No, but he admitted it later on the Young Guns documentary. That's what the story about Johnny threatening to leave was all about.
petshopmode
New Member
Wow... how'd he word it? Can't they (Moz and Marr) legally go back and use this for the courts on teir own defense even though the courtcase has already been dealt with years ago?
petshopmode
New Member
Woah.. so Marr was sort of forced by Moz to go along with giving the other two only 10%? Where was this incident mentioned?
"[...] the punk ideals, for the first time, seemed to be totally dead, really"
(i'm paraphrasing, though)
A
Alcoholic Afternoons
Guest
Yes, sorry for the corporate/anti-punk analogy, but I've never been under the impression that The Smiths formed to "stick it to the man." They seem (from what I've read, etc.), to have been pretty career/business oriented from the get-go.
To the extent the punk ideals ever really existed, R.I.P.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
They were "career/business oriented" in the same way I was when I told my parents with absolute sincerity that after watching "Top Gun" I wanted to be a fighter pilot. I suspect they knew as much about how to launch a music biz career as I did about flying F-14s. After all, they violated one of the cardinal rules: G-E-T E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G I-N W-R-I-T-I-N-G. I wouldn't have trusted them to run a lemonade stand. But oh, those masterful basslines...
A
Alcoholic Afternoons
Guest
Granted, they weren't very good at it, but that's what they apparently had in mind, anyway.
I had a friend who joined the military the day after seeing Top Gun. Oops.
I think the bassline comment, coupled with the Johnny's guitar comment, were a collective dig at Mike Joyce, by omission.
Worm
Taste the diffidence
I still have the occasional thought about flying jets. My dream ended the day someone told me that landing an F-14 on an aircraft carrier is like leaping across a room and landing your big toe on a postage stamp. In reality I just wanted to make nice-nice with Kelly McGillis.
(Okay, sure, I also wanted to play semi-nude volleyball with a clan of bronzed gay aviators. But only during what I call "my Bowie period".)
It's funny that people assume it's a dig at Mike. It seems like every time I turn around someone's posting another opinion about how useless Rourke and Joyce were, that Morrissey and Marr did everything and allowed Andy and Mike some credit out of a sense of kindness and pity. In which case Morrissey was just complimenting Johnny twice: once for the guitar, once for the masterful basslines he no doubt created on Andy's behalf.
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