Morrissey: Outsider or Establishment Figure?

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I see people talking about Morrissey as though he's still an outsider and against the Establishment and of course Morrissey likes to suggest this too in his interviews and statements and songs, etc; but it seems to me there's a huge gulf between the myth and the reality.

He slagged off David Cameron a few years ago, but not for his war on the poor of the UK, the dismantling and gradual privatisation of the NHS or his attacks on the welfare state, etc; his sole objection to Cameron and the Tory government it seems was because of fox hunting. He slags off the Royal Family for the same reason.
For his part, Cameron nominated The Smiths as one of his favourite bands a few years back, of course. Now everyone knows that whenever a politician reveals their favourite... well, anything, it's because they've considered how it will play, usually as a result of polls etc and they give a list of things they think will play well.
Either The Smiths were his favourite band: that means that an over-privileged oik from The Bullingdon Club would be drawn to Morrissey's songs (ergo he appeals to the Establishment) or he doesn't like them really but said he did because it seemed like it would play well (ergo liking The Smiths is now seen as a safe bet to Middle England).

The image of Morrissey - and one he perpetuates in the title song of his latest album - is that he is anti-Elite and anti-government, but in his latest message he goes out of his way to thank Israel (currently committing genocide and infanticide in Gaza); and his objection to this site seems to be that it isn't controlling enough of the people who post here.

Whenever he attacks people in print it's always people who it is very safe to attack: Posh and Becks, the Royal Family, etc. Why not attack people who are a genuine threat to the world? Even Daily Mail readers slag off Posh and Becks and the Royals.

He's extremely rich, part of 1%, he has security with him wherever he goes, protecting him from the hoi-polloi.

In what way is he not a part of the Establishment now?
 
And of course he's a UKIP supporter.
Compare how much coverage and time UKIP got in the (Establishment) media before the last election with that of genuine outsiders like the Green Party, for instance. The Green Party were barely mentioned, whereas UKIP probably got more coverage than any other party.

As an aside, the Green Party are probably the closest thing to the old working class supporting Labour Party that there is.
If you bought the myth of Morrissey, you might expect him to be a Green Party supporter; but no, he supports the favourite party of middle class well-off Middle England: UKIP.
 
Good question but I think you thoroughly answered it in your first post. However, I do think fox hunting is a valid criticism, but, yes, in other areas he is more like the establishment. Also, his comments against immigration in England is just more proof. (I can understand that it gets crowded and the culture changes, but there are problems in the world that are bigger than that - which is why there is so much immigration. This makes me wonder why he never talks about human overpopulation. I wonder if that's because he may be pro-life since he went to a pro-life rally as a teen.)
 
England for the English. And rightfully so.

I'm sure the half of the planet that was invaded and colonised by "the English" would have a different view.
And how far back does one go?
Most of us aren't originally from these islands anyway.
Are you English?
If so, don't you think you should leave Canada for the Canadians.
 
Israel (currently committing genocide and infanticide in Gaza?

Israel is not committing genocide or infanticide. Clearly you are parroting the emotional propaganda of the far left. Research the definitions of both. Use some critical thinking skills. Derive at the conclusion you misspoke.
 
Israel is not committing genocide or infanticide. Clearly you are parroting the emotional propaganda of the far left. Research the definitions of both. Use some critical thinking skills. Derive at the conclusion you misspoke.

There have been more than 1875 Palestinian deaths so far and the vast majority of them are innocent people. Do some research yourself, the facts are out there. Do you know how many Palestinian children have been murdered so far? Over 400. Hospitals bombed? Schools and universities bombed? UN shelters (which house injured people) bombed?
Human Rights Watch are reporting that Israeli soldiers shot and killed fleeing civilians, which is a war crime.
This is - by all definitions - genocide and infanticide.
None of this is likely to get on the US media, of course...
 
There have been more than 1875 Palestinian deaths so far and the vast majority of them are innocent people. Do some research yourself, the facts are out there. Do you know how many Palestinian children have been murdered so far? Over 400. Hospitals bombed? Schools and universities bombed? UN shelters (which house injured people) bombed?
Human Rights Watch are reporting that Israeli soldiers shot and killed fleeing civilians, which is a war crime.
This is - by all definitions - genocide and infanticide.
None of this is likely to get on the US media, of course...

Do you know the difference between collateral damage, infanticide, and genocide? Please do some research (Try Wikipedia.) before you respond.
 
Countries like Canada and Australia were built by immigrants and need to continue to bring in immigrants. I am not English, I'm Canadian (my maternal grandparents are from Scotland and I have a mostly British and Irish background -- but some English blood!) but that's not the point. As an observer I see a country in England that has a strong cultural identity that needs to be maintained and promoted -- not watered down, not tainted.
 
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Do you know the difference between collateral damage, infanticide, and genocide? Please do some research (Try Wikipedia.) before you respond.
Do you know the difference between collateral damage and a massacre? Please do some research (try this for starters) etc etc
Are you so embroiled in this right-wing mentality that you can swallow that kind of BS so easily and regurgitate it so flippantly?
More than 400 children? Collateral damage?
Good God.
 
Countries like Canada and Australia were built by immigrants and need to continue to bring in immigrants. I am not English, I'm Canadian (my maternal grandparents are from Scotland and I have a mostly British and Irish background -- but some English blood!) but that's not the point. As an observer I see a country in England that has a strong cultural identity that needs to be maintained and promoted -- not watered down, not tainted.

England has never had a strong cultural identity. Our music is influenced by the US, our art is influenced by Europe, our architecture is influenced by Southern Europe; there's a strong mix of the other parts of the UK and most of all our culture has always been mixed with influences from the further reaches of the British Empire. It's a myth that Little Englanders and racists like to propagate to make themselves feel special, but it isn't true.
 
Do you know the difference between collateral damage and a massacre? Please do some research (try this for starters) etc etc
Are you so embroiled in this right-wing mentality that you can swallow that kind of BS so easily and regurgitate it so flippantly?
More than 400 children? Collateral damage?
Good God.

How many children died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Their deaths didn't make the action any less necessary.
 
Countries like Canada and Australia were built by immigrants and need to continue to bring in immigrants. I am not English, I'm Canadian (my maternal grandparents are from Scotland and I have a mostly British and Irish background -- but some English blood!) but that's not the point. As an observer I see a country in England that has a strong cultural identity that needs to be maintained and promoted -- not watered down, not tainted.

Psst... guess where the very English pastime of tea drinking came from? Yep, the Chinese. If Britain hadn't explored and adopted other cultures' customs and practices, England would possibly be a nation of goats milk drinkers instead.
 
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Do you know the difference between collateral damage and a massacre? Please do some research (try this for starters) etc etc
Are you so embroiled in this right-wing mentality that you can swallow that kind of BS so easily and regurgitate it so flippantly?
More than 400 children? Collateral damage?
Good God.

I am not right wing nor do I have a right wing mentality. I do know what a massacre is. And I know that if Israel wanted to annihilate every single living creature in the Palestinian controlled regions of Israel, it could. That it has not done so despite being repeatedly terrorized by a bunch of illiterate fundamentalist psychopaths for years on end, is a testament to its civility as a nation and as a people.
 
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How many children died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Their deaths didn't make the action any less necessary.

Psst. Hate to tell you this, but the "necessity" of dropping the A Bombs in Japan is kind of debated everywhere but the US.
I realise in the US you all accept it unthinkingly, but most people realise it was just the US sending a signal to the Russians that you now had the biggest stick in the playground.
 
I am not right wing nor do I have a right wing mentality. I do know what a massacre is. And I know that if Israel wanted to annihilate every single living creature in the Palestinian controlled regions of Israel, it could. That is has not done so despite being repeatedly terrorized by a bunch of illiterate fundamentalist psychopaths for years on end, is a testament to their civility as a nation and as a people.

You may not think you're right wing but you sure seem to swallow the Fox News line unthinkingly.
Did you read the link?
What did you think of it?
Why are so many Israelis also condemning what is happening there do you think?
Why are more and more countries around the world protesting what is happening there do you think?
Why are there so many protests in the streets all over the world do you think?
How many children do they have to kill and how many fleeing civilians do they have to shoot before you think them uncivilised?
 
Psst... guess where the very English pastime of tea drinking came from? Yep, the Chinese. If Britain hadn't explored and adopted other cultures' customs and practices, England would possibly be a nation of goats milk drinkers instead.

I'm not saying live in a bubble. Just keep a balance. You don't want to go to either extreme of bubblizing yourself or flooding the gates.

In Toronto there might well be loads of different cultures and nationalities and religions and languages. But that doesn't mean there's a sense of togetherness. People stick with their own kind. Indians and Chinese come here to go to school and they hang out in exclusive groups speaking their own language.

Ideally if you choose to come to a country and join the club you'd play by that club's rules rather than making no attempt to integrate.

I met a dude from Brazil who was relatively new to the country but he was trying very hard to learn the language and get used to the way things are here and I find that to be very admirable.
 
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Ok reality, you just make the rythym of life go round round the rythym of life go round.
 
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