Morrissey to play in Israel!!!
- Thread starter karelMoz
- Start date
Guillaume Métayer
Guillaume Métayer
That's good news !!
I would like to go there but impossible to understand anything in Hebrew
Someone here to help me ?
Do you know where I could find a web site in English to buy my ticket.
Thanks for your help.
I would like to go there but impossible to understand anything in Hebrew
Someone here to help me ?
Do you know where I could find a web site in English to buy my ticket.
Thanks for your help.
drunken goldfish
blah blah fishcakes
^^Check your inbox 
.
.
Sir Alec
Anorak
Petty religious differences and absurd ethnic hatred = Israel v.s. Palestine
drunken goldfish
blah blah fishcakes
You know I love you Alec (because chica stupidly blurted it out
), but it's much more complicated than that. I'd elaborate but since the arguments have finaly stopped I'd hate to be the one to start them again.
Sir Alec
Anorak
You know I love you Alec (because chica stupidly blurted it out
I know it is much more complicated, but I just find the whole bitter battle to be sad and silly.
Also, I love me too! Join the party
Violet Crumble
New Member
Hello, Uncleskinny. I registered today to *gasp* put political views on a music forum, but I have a huge interest in the music, what with me being a first generation Smiths fan and all. I can remember the first time I heard 'Suffer Little Children' (the first song of theirs I ever heard) and being so hungry to hear more. And I've loved them ever since, and now my teenage daughter's inherited my love of The Smiths (though unlike me she worships Morrissey rather than Johnny Marr)...
Would you like to understand the mindset of a Smiths fan with political views? I grew up listening to Meat Is Murder and haven't had a problem with Morrissey making his political views public. For five seconds I even tried turning vegetarian, but I'm a true-blue carnivore and it didn't work. I've read Moz's political views on Bush and animal rights, and even if I disagreed with them, it wouldn't stop me listening to The Smiths, Moz, and Modest Mouse. Likewise, if Morrissey does go ahead with playing in Israel it won't affect my love of his music (except for his latest album, which was horrible)...
I'm sure the admin here would rather the discussion is about music than politics, so you wanted to know of non-musical forums so you can go post about Morrissey? Long after I fell in love with the Smiths, I studied Middle East politics, and got involved on political forums. You want to talk about Morrissey? Well here's the forum for you and anyone else who wants to talk Israel/Palestine. Yr going to have to beat me out of the way to talk about Morrissey, though, coz I'm already doing it...
For anyone who wants to sit here arguing the incredibly complex Israel/Palestine conflict, this might be a good idea for you to have a look at. Civil discussion about what is a very emotive topic is hard to find
http://www.israelpalestineforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392
Musicians and artists don't exist in some sort of sacrosanct vacuum. Visiting Israel as an artist in the current climate is, for all the howls of outrage we've seen from Israelis here and as much as Morrissey might deny it if questioned, an inherently political act. Just as sports teams or entertainers visiting the former apartheid South Africa was (and was rightly generally recognised as). The political aspects of the decision / visit are then ripe for discussion on a Morrissey forum. To try to argue forcefully that 'it's just about the music' / 'politics shouldn't be discussed here' is actually to take a view on a political issue, i.e. that Israel's conduct as a state isn't so reprehensible that (for example) artists and academics should have qualms about visiting.
Voodoo Doll
New Member
What I want to know is - is it safe for Moz and the fans to be there or is it in an area where they are likely to get bombed?
Sir Alec
Anorak
No matter how complicated the issue is, both sides have their unapologetic murderers. I think the entire world should just forget about them and maybe they will realize how little a piece of land matters in the long run of existence and maybe they will learn how to get along as human beings. The fact that Israel uses missiles and tanks to try and control the situation is the reason why they fail time and time again. They end up killing civilians instead, which inspires more of them to fight Israel. In response to more terrible attacks by freedom fighters, Israel bombs more. It just seems like such a needless cycle of violence.
The old saying still very much applies...
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
The old saying still very much applies...
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
nogodsnomasters85
Not Stirred
This is a pretty accurate summation. The main issues are the separation wall, primarily that is is being built well WITHIN palestinian territory, and not along the border on the Israeli side, as it was actually originally intended. Someone earlier made a very apt comparison to Bloody Sunday and the IRA in Northern Ireland, as you were saying, Israel's extreme military policies are fueling terrorism instead of stopping it. Another great parallel would be our own governments' incredibly shortsighted and violent forays into the middle east which have demonstratably INCREASED terrorism, and sympathy for those that commit it. The Arab league has said they would gladly deal with Israel if they will pull back to 1967 borders, even Hamas has hinted as much. Peace is POSSIBLE, the will just isn't there. This elucidates a greater issue, though. The United states plays an enormous role in this issue, and supports the most violent and radical military policies, as well as providing a shield from international justice. This does somewhat hurt the position of those Americans here who tend to hold more pro-palestinian views, as how can we say Morrissey shouldn't go when our own government at home is playing a very direct part in these inhumane policies. Also, would not morrissey be equally compelled by that reasoning, to boycott the United States for our Iraq occupation?
TheNightingale
Misplaced Joan of Arc
"God Bless Israel" -Morrissey
Popular or not this is a promise:
Genesis 12:2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you"
Popular or not this is a promise:
Genesis 12:2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you"
Jo Jo70
New Member
Yes, thank you for mentioning this particular 400-mile long monstrosity, or as it’s been called an ‘Apartheid Wall’. Supporters argue that the barrier is a necessary tool protecting Israeli civilians from Palestinian terrorism, including suicide bombing attacks.
Opponents argue that the barrier is an illegal attempt to annex Palestinian land under the guise of security, that it violates international law (the Red Cross has declared the barrier in violation of the Geneva Convention), and has the intent or effect to disrupt final status negotiations for a viable Palestine state.
It also severely restricts Palestinians who live nearby, particularly their ability to travel freely within the West Bank and to access work in Israel, thereby undermining their economy.
Upon completion of the construction the barrier would prevent over 130,000 Palestinian children from being immunised, and deny more than 100,000 pregnant women access to healthcare in Israel. In addition, almost a third of West Bank villages will suffer from lack of access to healthcare, including emergency care.
It has been suggested that popular support for Hamas is due to the very fact that they have established much needed hospitals, education systems, libraries and social services.
‘As of May 2004, the fence construction had already uprooted an estimated 102,320 Palestinian olive and citrus trees, demolished 75 acres (0.3 km²) of greenhouses and 23 miles (37 km) of irrigation pipes.’
‘It is difficult to overstate the humanitarian impact of the Barrier. The route inside the West Bank severs communities, people’s access to services, livelihoods and religious and cultural amenities. In addition, plans for the Barrier’s exact route and crossing points through it are often not fully revealed until days before construction commences. This has led to considerable anxiety amongst Palestinians about how their future lives will be impacted. The land between the Barrier and the Green Line constitutes some of the most fertile in the West Bank. It is currently the home for 49,400 West Bank Palestinians living in 38 villages and towns.’
- Introduction UN report 2005
Even George Bush had the 'sense' to acknowledge that the barrier wasn't exactly helping relations!:
'I think the wall is a problem. And I discussed this with Ariel Sharon. It is very difficult to develop confidence between the Palestinians and Israel with a wall snaking through the West Bank.'
drunken goldfish
blah blah fishcakes
^^Hi again JoJo, did you see my previous replies to you?
As for the wall, I'm (genuinely) sorry it disrupts the lives of many innocent Palestinians, but I'm not sorry that since its construction we've had less suicide bombings. Palestinian logic is apparently: we'll bomb your children and send rockets to your cities, but you keep admitting us to your hospitals and workplaces (which we still do, incidentaly. I'm sure your Palestinian sources forgot to inform you as to how this sometimes backfires on us, like the girl who was treated here for months and later tried to blow up the hospital). How about instead of wasting all their money on rockets and bombs, they spend it on providing hospitals and workplaces for themselves?
As for the wall, I'm (genuinely) sorry it disrupts the lives of many innocent Palestinians, but I'm not sorry that since its construction we've had less suicide bombings. Palestinian logic is apparently: we'll bomb your children and send rockets to your cities, but you keep admitting us to your hospitals and workplaces (which we still do, incidentaly. I'm sure your Palestinian sources forgot to inform you as to how this sometimes backfires on us, like the girl who was treated here for months and later tried to blow up the hospital). How about instead of wasting all their money on rockets and bombs, they spend it on providing hospitals and workplaces for themselves?
Jo Jo70
New Member
Thank you, I did see your replies, but my presence on here is irregular at best (for the best?)
And I don't have any 'Palestinian sources' as you put it. This information is freely available. My quotes were from quite reliable sources though, that is the United Nations and the Red Cross, even old GW himself! (well my argument may fall down in his case
)I agree that this is a complex situation with wrongs commmited on both sides, but all the examples you offered were clearly the actions of individual extremists. My point is that the lives of ordinary, innocent people have been severely affected by the building of this barrier. It does nothing to aid attempts at reconciliation and it's very existence is surely further fuel for acts of terrorism?
Let's get this into perspective here-we are talking about the might of the Israeli Army waged against Palestinian people. Nobody would question that Palestinian casualties have been far greater. And that doesn't mean that loss of life on either side is anything else but a tradegy.
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drunken goldfish
blah blah fishcakes
I agree that there are no "good guys" and "bad guys" here, and loss of innocent lives is always a tragedy. I don't think anyone knows how to stop it at this point though - except a few Solo posters, apparently!Thank you, I did see your replies, but my presence on here is irregular at best (for the best?)
And I don't have any 'Palestinian sources' as you put it. This information is freely available. My quotes were from quite reliable sources though, that is the United Nations and the Red Cross, even old GW himself! (well my argument may fall down in his case
I agree that this is a complex situation with wrongs commmited on both sides, but all the examples you offered were clearly the actions of individual extremists. My point is that the lives of ordinary, innocent people have been severely affected by the building of this barrier. It does nothing to aid attempts at reconciliation and it's very existence is surely further fuel for acts of terrorism?
Let's get this into perspective here-we are talking about the might of the Israeli Army waged against Palestinian people. Nobody would question that Palestinian casualties have been far greater. And that doesn't been that loss of life on either side is anything else but a tradegy.
EDIT: One last point I forgot - you say that Palestinian terrorism is the acts of extremist individuals, but many suicide bombings were executed by Hammas - Palestine's elected party. And now I'm really going to stop participating in this thread because nobody seems to change their mind anyway -as in most political discussions, I suppose...
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Minds can change. Peace in Northern Ireland. End of apartheid in South Africa.
Peace in Israel too maybe, but it's in Israel's hands. I think many actually prefer a level of bloodshed and retaining the territory they now hold, to peace and giving up the territory occupied in 1967. Until then there will never be peace and no matter how many Palestinians the Israeli army kills, Israelis will still die.
Peace in Israel too maybe, but it's in Israel's hands. I think many actually prefer a level of bloodshed and retaining the territory they now hold, to peace and giving up the territory occupied in 1967. Until then there will never be peace and no matter how many Palestinians the Israeli army kills, Israelis will still die.
Jo Jo70
New Member
Now, now I never claimed to have the answers to solve this particular conflict. I can’t even sort out my own life!
All of the above are the reasons why I’m dismayed by Morrissey’s decision to play in Israel, something that would only be justified if he also played in Gaza or the West Bank. I can’t really see that happening though, can you? And would he be welcome in any Arab/Muslim country after playing in Israel?
Morrissey has never been apolitical, so I can’t understand why we are now supposed to separate politics from music.
News just in!:
Hamas 'Ready to accept Israel'
1 hour ago
Former US President Jimmy Carter said that Hamas is prepared to accept Israel's right to "live as a neighbour next door in peace." Carter relayed this message in a speech in Jerusalem after meeting with top Hamas leaders last week in Syria.
The speech capped a nine-day visit designed to break the deadlock between Israel and Hamas militants who rule the Gaza Strip. Israel considers Hamas to be a terrorist group and has shunned Carter during his visit because of his meetings with Hamas' supreme chief, Khaled Mashaal, and other Hamas figures.
In his speech in Jerusalem, Carter urged Israel to engage in direct negotiations with Hamas, saying failure to do so was hampering peace efforts. "We do not believe that peace is likely and certainly that peace is not sustainable unless a way is found to bring Hamas into the discussions in some way," he said. "The present strategy of excluding Hamas and excluding Syria is just not working."
Syria harbours Hamas' exiled leadership in its capital, Damascus, and supports the Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas who warred with Israel in the summer of 2006. Carter said Hamas wouldn't undermine moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' efforts to reach a peace deal with Israel, as long as the Palestinian people approved it in a referendum. In such a scenario, he said, Hamas would not oppose a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.
Hamas leaders "said that they would accept a Palestinian state on the 1967 borders" and they would "accept the right of Israel to live as a neighbour next door in peace," he said. The borders he referred to were the frontiers that existed before Israel captured large swaths of Arab lands in the 1967 war - including the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza.'
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