Morrissey's attitude to women?

[Barking]

Re: Grrrrrrrrrr

Barking, stop hijacking the thread!!

You can send a visitor message to Silke.

Thank you very much.

K bye everyone!

although just because it's a women only thread, as the presence of the irreplaceable Worm testifies, doesn't mean you should discriminate against us dogs. I mean, smack my bitch up, or what!

 

[Quiffaa]

Last time I checked, lesbians were women. Some even northern lasses.

In the spirit of 'WWMD?' 'groupies' ?? a derogatory term, methinks


just from the top of my head ...
Ms. Pat Phoenix, Ms. J. Mitchell, Ms. S. O'Connor, Ms. Ch. Hynde,
Ms. N. Sinatra

lesbians?

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Anyway, here's Morrissey in 1983:

"I just so happen to be completely influenced by feminist writers like Molly Haskell, Marjory Rose and Susan Brown-Miller. An endless list of them!

Oh Morrissey, why do you have to be such a brainiac! Does it count toward the feminist cause that I love watching "Snapped" on the Oxygen Network?


(The part of bored Hugh Hefner will be played by Morrissey....)

 

[Worm]

Oh Morrissey, why do you have to be such a brainiac! Does it count toward the feminist cause that I love watching "Snapped" on the Oxygen Network?

Higher thinking does not resolve contradictions, it contains and thrives off of them. So, yes.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Higher thinking does not resolve contradictions, it contains and thrives off of them. So, yes.

Yay! Okay now let's put our Religious Studies hats on and all go settle the debate about whether Judas Viscariot was a traitor or a martyr by watching The Soup!

(You think I'm kidding? )

 

[Worm]

whether Judas Viscariot was a traitor or a martyr by watching The Soup!

A traitor or martyr for watching "The Soup"? Uh, I'd call him a victim.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

A traitor or martyr for watching "The Soup"? Uh, I'd call him a victim.

The victim of watching the Best. Show. Evar.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

Not to take away from discussion of Morrissey and women, but The Soup is amazing for an anomolie hunter like myself. Joel McHale and his staff make my life a zillion times easier because he finds the weird blips in human behavior caught on film that usually communicate loads of stuff symbolically, and he's flippin' hilarious so it's a win win. So Morrissey likes smart women, maybe the fact I love The Soup for the above reasons makes me smart. So there. Now I just gotta get Morrissey to tell me he loves me.

 

[CrystalGeezer]

But for the record, I don't watch Snapped symbolically. I just like to hear about stories of women who lose their shit and start stabbing and shooting people.

 

[Sherry]

"I don't want to GO ON about feminism but it is an ideal state. It will never be realised beyond that because this society detests strong women. You just have to look at the Greenham women. This is a society that only likes women who faint and fawn and want only to get married. I'm not neurotic about it, but it is an integral part of the way I write."

If Morrissey were to call himself a femininst gosh that would be so great

 

[Worm]

stories of women who lose their shit and start stabbing and shooting people.

If they were stories of women who lost their shirt and started stabbing and shooting people I'd say you had yourself the makings of a midnight-movie classic.

 

[Mars_Rover]

"I just so happen to be completely influenced by feminist writers like Molly Haskell, Marjory Rose and Susan Brown-Miller." That's a typo - her name is Brownmiller. Sorry, I had to correct that, it was bothering my inner librarian something fierce.

 

[goinghome]

If they were stories of women who lost their shirt and started stabbing and shooting people I'd say you had yourself the makings of a midnight-movie classic.

Feminism can only stretch so far ; )

Btw, does anyone remember the photograph of the woman standing in front of an anti-sexual harrassment poster wearing a t-shirt that said 'Moz' Knockers'? It was amongst the gallery shots with the YATQ CD.

 

[Worm]

"I just so happen to be completely influenced by feminist writers like Molly Haskell, Marjory Rose and Susan Brown-Miller." That's a typo - her name is Brownmiller. Sorry, I had to correct that, it was bothering my inner librarian something fierce.

Does your inner librarian look like Jean Seberg?

 

[Mars_Rover]

Ha. My inner librarian looks like Nicole Kidman in her nerd frames:

Back to Mozza-as-feminist: I know we've discussed this before, but he needs to hire a female musician for his band hasta pronto. As The Babys once sang, Isn't it time?

 

[Raphael Lambach]

He's like a mannequin, he's got no gender

I always thought he's an android.

 

[PregnantForTheLastTime]

Does your inner librarian look like Jean Seberg?

Thank you for clarifying your attitude toward women.

Wait, why? Do you have a thing for libraries?

 

[Theo]

I've seen so many examples of his feminist sympathies over the years that he deserves the name "feminist" even if he may balk at "identifying" himself as such.

There are some curious lines in the songs, like "I lost my faith in womanhood", but I think these are sung from his other position, that of espousing "male liberation", so if he seems disrespectful toward women (and I'm not saying he is) it probably represents a more complicated point of view. But I don't think he disrespects women at all. In fact, aside from vegetarianism and "male liberation", I'd say feminism is probably his next most passionate cause.

If he's so passionate about feminism, explain to me why he's never hired a female to produce one of his records, never hired a female as a manager, and has never allowed a female to have any greater role on one of his recordings than back-up singer? (Okay, he did do a duet with Siousxie Sioux, but they were not even in the same city when they recorded it.)

I say this because Morrissey did this song where he was yapping about how the ideals of America are fake because we've not yet had a female president. You haven't had a female guitarist, record producer, bass player, or drummer, Morrissey! You also fired Kristeen Young as an opening act because she didn't follow your script.

 

[Theo]

Anyway, here's Morrissey in 1983:

"I just so happen to be completely influenced by feminist writers like Molly Haskell, Marjory Rose and Susan Brown-Miller. An endless list of them!"

He does like to go on about feminism in interviews. He goes on about sexism in language, etc etc. In interviews only. In his own career, where truth is better revealed, he never allows a female to be in the band, to be his manager, or to produce one of his recordings. Females, in his body of work, exist to sing backround vocals and to be subservient opening acts at his concerts. I wouldn't bring this up if he didn't have a long succession of musicians and producers and managers he has worked with. They are always males. You'd think - at least by accident - a female would've slipped in there somewhere, if he hadn't been consciously rejecting females for such jobs.

 

[Silke]

Fair points, Silke. I was trying to indicate what Morrissey believes, that's all. Whether or not he's a "real" feminist is another question. My definition of a "strong woman" is closer to yours, but I wasn't really offering my own views.

As for the lack of these women in his songs, again, I think you have to consider that he has always sung about men and masculinity, and women have been background figures in the lyrics. I don't know what you mean by "the male tag" being so recent; he talked about "male liberation" in the earliest Smiths interviews and has remained consistent.

The tricky thing about understanding what Morrissey thinks about women is that his favorite artists, male or female, are writers, actors, filmmakers, and musicians whom he must find "interesting" as artists first and only secondly as social or political categories. You can easily tell what he likes, but it's much harder to discern what he doesn't like, and why. He finds breaking sexual norms "interesting", but his obvious affection for homosexual artists can't be seen as an implicit repudiation of men and women who don't sell their bodies and souls to anyone, as you put it. He's addicted to spectacle, drama, and extreme human emotions. If these aren't on display, he probably isn't going to sing about it or talk about it in interviews. I believe if you sat down with him and described what you thought of as a strong woman, he would agree with you completely and enthusiastically. Then, at the end, he'd still say, "Fine, fine, fine. Now, can we talk about Joni Mitchell?"

Oh, I meant they are either this and/or that.
And I forgot the rich daughters.

Joni Mitchell... I find it strange that my drum teacher said he had been on tour with her, because I do not see when that would have had happened... so weird... and my personal experience with other people in the music industry is oddly not at all that you have to diplay your sexuality too much to get some support or be accepted in any way.

I say this because Morrissey did this song where he was yapping about how the ideals of America are fake because we've not yet had a female president. You haven't had a female guitarist, record producer, bass player, or drummer, Morrissey! You also fired Kristeen young as an opening act because she didn't follow your script.

You know, Germany has a female chancelor, this does not mean though that women with the same qualification and experience get equal pay or a job at all. And in regard to Young, if you are fair you recognize that afterwards he adjusted to her script with the language he used in his lyrics and the nude pictures.

I agree with you that action shows more than words and when it comes to action he is far behind. I went to a concert of a band in August which ironically I had thought last year to lack behind Morrissey and I even had thought of holding him up against them. But as I stood there and watched their female guitar backliner and then the band on stage I became aware that it is not them who is lacking behind, it is Morrissey.