What do you think about "the Silent Scream" abortion video?

[chica]

Allegedly it shows a 12 weeks old fetus. It tries to escape the surgical instrument, and when it finally fails, it opens its mouth as if it's trying to scream.

However, I read that fetuses don't feel pain until 23 weeks, and that all of its motions before that are reflex. What do you think?

 

[Cassius]

However, I read that fetuses don't feel pain until 23 weeks, and that all of its motions before that are reflex. What do you think?

I've read several different time frames in which fetuses begin to feel pain. I'm confused as to which one is real.

 

[Amy]

Allegedly it shows a 12 weeks old fetus. It tries to escape the surgical instrument, and when it finally fails, it opens its mouth as if it's trying to scream.

However, I read that fetuses don't feel pain until 23 weeks, and that all of its motions before that are reflex. What do you think?

I was born at 23 weeks, so I am a little sceptical that babies have no pain receptors before that time.

 

[Coiffeur_En_Flame]

Anti-abortion propaganda. That's all.


Coiff.

 

[chica]

I read about it here.

Apparently pain receptors form early, but impulses from those receptors cannot be processed until 23 weeks because brain is not developed yet. And no brain, no pain, so to speak

 

[Dow Jones]

I read about it here.

Apparently pain receptors form early, but impulses from those receptors cannot be processed until 23 weeks because brain is not developed yet. And no brain, no pain, so to speak

I should really consider getting my brain removed.

 

[Dave]

Youtube does have silent scream but it appears to be very long, divided into parts, and looks sort of graphic.

 

[Theo]

Allegedly it shows a 12 weeks old fetus. It tries to escape the surgical instrument, and when it finally fails, it opens its mouth as if it's trying to scream.

However, I read that fetuses don't feel pain until 23 weeks, and that all of its motions before that are reflex. What do you think?

I'm assuming the people in this forum who tell us we're barbaric murderers if we swat a mosquito, eat a shrimp cocktail, or bite into a chicken breast will have a lot to say in this thread. I'll await their replies.

 

[chica]

Okay, some of you must have noticed that I've been thinking about religion lately. So I browsed another forum and a debate between a religious pro-lifer and a non-religious pro-abortionist took place. At some point the pro-abortionist said that abortion should be illegal when donating kidneys becomes compulsory But it did make sense - the religious guy was saying that every life is sacred, they're all equally important, even one cell, or an embryo is as important as an adult person.

So the other guy said that compromising one's body to give life to a child shouldn't be more acceptable than compromising one's body to give life to someone who would die without an organ transplant. Then the religious guy said something like "Yes, but organ donation is more harmful than pregnancy" and the abortionist said "Okay, but no one would ever seriously suggest to make even blood donation compulsory". How does one counter that? Can you make people use their bodies to help people and still live in a free society?

 

[iamkali62]

Allegedly it shows a 12 weeks old fetus. It tries to escape the surgical instrument, and when it finally fails, it opens its mouth as if it's trying to scream.

However, I read that fetuses don't feel pain until 23 weeks, and that all of its motions before that are reflex. What do you think?

I think that is a bunch of crap propagated by the pro choice people. I was 8 weeks pregnant and I had an ectopic pregnancy. I SAW the *fetus*. (Guys, don't read on if this grosses you out.) It looked like, honestly, a very heavy period. It was dark red and jelly like, like a heavy period. I would say they are reflexes if anything, at 12 months.

 

[Dave]

Okay, some of you must have noticed that I've been thinking about religion lately. So I browsed another forum and a debate between a religious pro-lifer and a non-religious pro-abortionist took place. At some point the pro-abortionist said that abortion should be illegal when donating kidneys becomes compulsory But it did make sense - the religious guy was saying that every life is sacred, they're all equally important, even one cell, or an embryo is as important as an adult person.

So the other guy said that compromising one's body to give life to a child shouldn't be more acceptable than compromising one's body to give life to someone who would die without an organ transplant. Then the religious guy said something like "Yes, but organ donation is more harmful than pregnancy" and the abortionist said "Okay, but no one would ever seriously suggest to make even blood donation compulsory". How does one counter that? Can you make people use their bodies to help people and still live in a free society?

Here's the thing. You have to realize that MOST of the arguments for or against abortion are all semantics games. People DO want to ignore the rights of the potential unborn and make it solely a women's rights issue and it's not. However it is not totally NOT a women's rights issue either.

I think that most people don't have the stomach to see it as the competing rights between two human beings. I suppose the mother's rights should outweigh the unborn's and she should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy. By killing an inborn baby. In any case it's not something the government should decide.

Capital Punishment is often mentioned in abortion debates and I see no reaso for this one to be any different do here goes.

Some people deserve to die, but the state doesn't have the right to kill them. And the state doesn't have the right to intervene on behalf of potential humans, and strip the rights of fully formed humans.

There's no right answer to this question though. That's why it goes on and on.

 

[Coiffeur_En_Flame]

People DO want to... make it solely a women's rights issue and it's not.

Yes, it really is.

I've had this debate on here and in real life until I'm blue in the face. I doubt that either 'side' is ever going to win, since both believe passionately that they are in the right. But, as Dave says, the most important thing is for the State to keep out of this argument, and therefore ensure free and easy access to abortions.


Coiff.

 

[vicarinatutugal]

I think that is a bunch of crap propagated by the pro choice people. I was 8 weeks pregnant and I had an ectopic pregnancy. I SAW the *fetus*. (Guys, don't read on if this grosses you out.) It looked like, honestly, a very heavy period. It was dark red and jelly like, like a heavy period. I would say they are reflexes if anything, at 12 months.

12 months!!

<<<<

12 weeks

I saw that silent scream its not pleasant and there was another one on channel 4 that showed stuff clearer a couple of years back, However I do think that people should have choice (early on)

 

[chica]

Here's the thing. You have to realize that MOST of the arguments for or against abortion are all semantics games. People DO want to ignore the rights of the potential unborn and make it solely a women's rights issue and it's not. However it is not totally NOT a women's rights issue either.

I think that most people don't have the stomach to see it as the competing rights between two human beings. I suppose the mother's rights should outweigh the unborn's and she should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy. By killing an inborn baby. In any case it's not something the government should decide.

Capital Punishment is often mentioned in abortion debates and I see no reaso for this one to be any different do here goes.

Some people deserve to die, but the state doesn't have the right to kill them. And the state doesn't have the right to intervene on behalf of potential humans, and strip the rights of fully formed humans.

There's no right answer to this question though. That's why it goes on and on.

But that argument upset me because it means my core beliefs are conflicted See, I believe that the state ought to protect life and body integrity of its citizens.

Though I think its humane, as it saves lives, I would never ever want to have laws which make people donate blood, for example. However, I base my pro-life stance on the fact that unborn child has a right to life and that the state should protect it. However, if I don't want the state to make people give blood to save another person's life, it would make me a hypocrite if I wanted the state to make people (women) use their body to save the life of their unborn child!

 

[Hellie]

Hasn't this been debated to death on here?

 

[chica]

Hasn't this been debated to death on here?

Probably, but this is the first time I realized I was actually pro-choice, although I don't want to be

 

[Dave]

Yes, it really is.

I've had this debate on here and in real life until I'm blue in the face. I doubt that either 'side' is ever going to win, since both believe passionately that they are in the right. But, as Dave says, the most important thing is for the State to keep out of this argument, and therefore ensure free and easy access to abortions.


Coiff.

But it's not. Do you believe that a baby becomes a human being only after it is born? If not, then exactly when?
personally I believe that it is alive from conception, though I'll concede that it may not be a "human being". I'm not even talking about the possibility of "a soul" . I'm talking about what makes a human.

Consider when formulating your definition that not all human beings are alike at birth. Is it alright to have your child euthanized?
The most common reasons given for the necessity for abortion are rape and incest. So what if a sexually active woman was raped? She decides to keep the child, not knowing the identity of the father. At birth she recognizes that she has given birth to the child of her rapist. Can she have the child euthanized?

If not, why not?

Even in saying that it is only a women's rights issue you edited my sentence to remove reference to the possibility of an unborn human having rights.

That shows that the real questions are too much to address.

 

[chica]

But it's not. Do you believe that a baby becomes a human being only after it is born? If not, then exactly when?
personally I believe that it is alive from conception, though I'll concede that it may not be a "human being". I'm not even talking about the possibility of "a soul" . I'm talking about what makes a human.

Consider when formulating your definition that not all human beings are alike at birth. Is it alright to have your child euthanized?
The most common reasons given for the necessity for abortion are rape and incest. So what if a sexually active woman was raped? She decides to keep the child, not knowing the identity of the father. At birth she recognizes that she has given birth to the child of her rapist. Can she have the child euthanized?

If not, why not?

Even in saying that it is only a women's rights issue you edited my sentence to remove reference to the possibility of an unborn human having rights.

That shows that the real questions are too much to address.

So basically, if there was a way to remove the fetus form the uterus and plant it into some kind of artificial device (early in pregnancy, when most abortions are performed), would it be the only ethical solution? Would the USA for example be able to sustain 1 more million of new citizens every year, or would the system crack under pressure and would it turn into a third world country?

 

[Hellie]

Probably, but this is the first time I realized I was actually pro-choice, although I don't want to be

Well I've had three babies and when you've had early scans that show them thumb sucking it puts how precious human life is into perspective.My third child was an accident and came at a time when i had a mental breakdown of sorts and couldn't cope with another one.I was very ill at the time.But i had him when everyone said get rid of him.And now he is the most angelic sweet natured precious child you could ever wish to know.

 

[chica]

Well I've had three babies and when you've had early scans that show them thumb sucking it puts how precious human life is into perspective.My third child was an accident and came at a time when i had a mental breakdown of sorts and couldn't cope with another one.I was very ill at the time.But i had him when everyone said get rid of him.And now he is the most angelic sweet natured precious child you could ever wish to know.

I know! Just look at this photo, it's so sweet!

However, it turns out that if I believe in personal liberty, which I do, and if I don't want laws to order people to use parts of their bodies to save other people's lives - which I don't - then I can't want laws to make women use their bodies to save lives of their unborn children. My own political beliefs are against me