Another gay debate

[Pav1ova]

I guess people will just believe what they want to believe... despite all the evidence to the contrary.

This reminds me, I've read there's this widespread theory in Russia that Freddie Mercury was not actually gay at all, that it's all a conspiracy (which includes the other Queen members) to make it seem like he was!

I'm Russian and I've never heard of this one, let alone that it's widespread. I've noticed that when it comes to celebrities, a common attitude among homophobes here is something along the lines of "well he's gay (or *insert a homophobic slur*) but that's just one flaw, his music/acting/whatever is great, famous people are allowed to have their peculiarities" or just, well, ignoring it by simply never mentioning it. Homophobia is not just awkwardly denying things that are there in plain sight or refusing to enjoy a person's work.


Anyway, Morrissey has described himself many times as attracted both to men and women, bisexuality is not about some constant 50/50 attraction or having dated equal number of men and women. We neither have the "evidence" that he's a self-loathing gay man (what could this evidence be anyway?) nor can we get inside his head to "figure it out". I think we should trust what he says in that regard.

 

[Mimi Ramone]

Geez, why does it matter? Unless there is a whole new development we all know what is out there in his songs, the autobiography, List of the lost, his imagery/artwork etc...and that is that he seemingly is bisexual. As @Pav1ova already said that doesn't mean there is a 50/50 share between the sexes. That wouldn't make sense and even less if you're not easily attracted to people. It's not that we ever get in a situation where it's important what sexuality he has. And if you do, you will most certainly know...

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Keep the Smiths gay!
https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...dersfield-morrissey-spotted-in-photos.146747/

The guy with the beard to his right is just Fa-Laming.

 

[YourArse'n'All]

Keep the Smiths gay!
https://www.morrissey-solo.com/thre...dersfield-morrissey-spotted-in-photos.146747/

Had not seen this before, thanks! Of course it’s him

 

[Crisstti]

I guess people will just believe what they want to believe... despite all the evidence to the contrary.

This reminds me, I've read there's this widespread theory in Russia that Freddie Mercury was not actually gay at all, that it's all a conspiracy (which includes the other Queen members) to make it seem like he was!

I'm Russian and I've never heard of this one, let alone that it's widespread. I've noticed that when it comes to celebrities, a common attitude among homophobes here is something along the lines of "well he's gay (or *insert a homophobic slur*) but that's just one flaw, his music/acting/whatever is great, famous people are allowed to have their peculiarities" or just, well, ignoring it by simply never mentioning it. Homophobia is not just awkwardly denying things that are there in plain sight or refusing to enjoy a person's work.


Anyway, Morrissey has described himself many times as attracted both to men and women, bisexuality is not about some constant 50/50 attraction or having dated equal number of men and women. We neither have the "evidence" that he's a self-loathing gay man (what could this evidence be anyway?) nor can we get inside his head to "figure it out". I think we should trust what he says in that regard.

Well that's interesting. I read about it in some Queen forum a while back, but of course had no way of checking since I don't speak a word of Russian! Seems like it's not true after all.

 

[Deleted member 31782]

Don't. Some of the men here are very fragile and can't possibly handle one of the most queer bands being queer. Case in point: their responses to your comments about The Smiths and Morrissey being rather queer (which I happen to love).

It's pretty undeniable. Morrissey has had male (and female) lovers; the artwork of the Smiths was very queer and camp; Morrissey's expression, both in the way he presents and writes lyrics has been very queer and camp (and sometimes attempted to be hypermasculine, like his boxing phase of the mid-90s, which managed to be very camp as well); the way he put queer figures on a pedestal throughout his career. Plus, much of the criticism of the Smiths and Morrissey over the years has been laden with homophobia due to the way they presented.

I think it's great, and I'd never deny it. As a straight man, The Smiths and Morrissey helped me see sexuality and masculinity through a different lens, and shaped my own masculinity. Wonderful stuff.

I do not know what kind of lovers anyone had. but for me, Morrissey's music and his performance are very manful. even when he's not singing about love. Which is very rare these days.
it seems he has never openly talked about it anywhere. it seems there was a mention in the book that he lived with some photographer. but does that mean they were lovers? maybe this is, of course, a naive question, but for me he is very manful, as Michael Jackson and all his music were at one time, although some said the same about him because of his appearance.

 

[Deleted member 31782]

I guess people will just believe what they want to believe... despite all the evidence to the contrary.

This reminds me, I've read there's this widespread theory in Russia that Freddie Mercury was not actually gay at all, that it's all a conspiracy (which includes the other Queen members) to make it seem like he was!

Well that's interesting. I read about it in some Queen forum a while back, but of course had no way of checking since I don't speak a word of Russian! Seems like it's not true after all.

I've never heard of such a conspiracy about Queen. he himself hid his lifestyle for a long time, and then he told it himself. And George Michael and Elton John are not hiding anything. So everyone knows that. Morrissey is secretive about his personal life. But he himself once said that he was not a homosexual. He said humorously that he was a human-sexual)) and this is not at all like a bisexual)

 

[mre]

has he ever confirmed himself as being gay,nope.

does he really have to do it to be declared?

 

[Deleted member 31782]

does he really have to do it to be declared?

but if he didn't confirm it himself, then we can't confirm it either

 

[Captain Caveman]

I've never heard of such a conspiracy about Queen. he himself hid his lifestyle for a long time, and then he told it himself.

Freddie Mercury never publicly came out in his lifetime, and remained firmly in the closet until the day he died. Looking back now his sexuality seems screamingly obvious, but I would not underestimate how naive a lot of the general public were back then. My friends and family were all shocked at the revelations following his death, and had presumed he was a macho 'ladies man'. It was a different time in the 70's/80's , and there were very few openly 'out' rock stars. Even George Michael only came out in 1998.

 

[gordyboy9]

does he really have to do it to be declared?

a big fat yip.

 

[Deleted member 31782]

Freddie Mercury never publicly came out in his lifetime, and remained firmly in the closet until the day he died. Looking back now his sexuality seems screamingly obvious, but I would not underestimate how naive a lot of the general public were back then. My friends and family were all shocked at the revelations following his death, and had presumed he was a macho 'ladies man'. It was a different time in the 70's/80's , and there were very few openly 'out' rock stars. Even George Michael only came out in 1998.

Where are you from?

 

[Redacted]

I will never understand being so obsessed with someone else's sexuality, I would really rather not know, esp now since my city won't stop talking about pride month. I do not care who you sleep with as long as it's legal and consensual.

 

[Musician]

I will never understand being so obsessed with someone else's sexuality, I would really rather not know, esp now since my city won't stop talking about pride month. I do not care who you sleep with as long as it's legal and consensual.

I personally don't care about Morrissey's sexuality, however - I find it ridiculous that he himself peppers his songs with double entendres, almost blatantly open references to homosexuality (don't get me started), artwork etc, then, when he's asked about it, he stands there wondering "why are people so obsessed with my sexuality??" Come on . It's like Mötley Crew being offended suggesting they were womanizers.

 

[Deleted member 29227]

His sexuality matters not one jot to me, either, but for those seemingly "obsessed" I found this from Rolling Stone some years ago:

"MORRISSEY FELT COMPELLED to set the record straight on his sexuality this weekend after opening up about his first relationship with a man in his recently-published memoir. “Unfortunately, I am not homosexual. In technical fact, I am humasexual,” he wrote from Sweden on Saturday in a note posted on the fansite True to You. “I am attracted to humans,” he went on to explain. “But, of course . . . not many.” "

Regarding lyrical 'ambiguity', or 'double entendres' "In a 1986 interview with Rolling Stone, Morrissey explained that the gender ambiguity in the subjects of his song lyrics for the Smiths was intentional. “It was very important for me to try and write for everybody,” he said. “I find when people and things are entirely revealed in an obvious way, it freezes the imagination of the observer. There is nothing to probe for, nothing to dwell on or try and unravel. With the Smiths, nothing is ever open and shut.”"

 

[Deleted member 31782]

Freddie Mercury never publicly came out in his lifetime, and remained firmly in the closet until the day he died. Looking back now his sexuality seems screamingly obvious, but I would not underestimate how naive a lot of the general public were back then. My friends and family were all shocked at the revelations following his death, and had presumed he was a macho 'ladies man'. It was a different time in the 70's/80's , and there were very few openly 'out' rock stars. Even George Michael only came out in 1998.

Homosexuals are often very gallant and attentive. But that's not what I'm talking about. I don't think Morrissey is a ladies' man or anything like that. It's just that masculinity and femininity are something that comes from within. It's hard to explain. But we often just feel such things) also the words masculinity and femininity are very difficult to translate into different languages. for example, in the Russian language the word ''masculin'' - it's something rude, harsh, and there is another word that I mean. It includes the mental qualities of a man, not just his external behavior. The same is the word ''feminism'' as tracing paper from English, it is associated with something aggressive, attacking, leading, and there is another word for femininity, close to womanhood, but not exactly, it is the opposite, and associated with tenderness, gentleness, kindness. tracing paper from the English word masculin is rather not even qualities, but terms used in specialized literature, most often in the field of psychology. so manhood, virility, manliness...i don't know how right to tell...

 

[Crisstti]

I personally don't care about Morrissey's sexuality, however - I find it ridiculous that he himself peppers his songs with double entendres, almost blatantly open references to homosexuality (don't get me started), artwork etc, then, when he's asked about it, he stands there wondering "why are people so obsessed with my sexuality??" Come on . It's like Mötley Crew being offended suggesting they were womanizers.

Well, if he's made it clear already then why would people need to ask him.

 

[Mimi Ramone]

Well, if he's made it clear already then why would people need to ask him.

Yeah, but @Musician has a point there. Moz has many sexually connoted lyrics and artwork, so it's a topic he often deliberately uses. And that may be one reason why it's discussed so much (other than the blatant nosiness of people of course), at least when you look at sexuality itself. Although I really don't care what sexuality he has, sexuality in itself is a recurrent theme of his lyrics and as well as the other topics of his songs it makes people think, which is good. But he really can't wonder why that makes people nosy and I don't think he does.

 

[Crisstti]

Yeah, but @Musician has a point there. Moz has many sexually connoted lyrics and artwork, so it's a topic he often deliberately uses. And that may be one reason why it's discussed so much (other than the blatant nosiness of people of course), at least when you look at sexuality itself. Although I really don't care what sexuality he has, sexuality in itself is a recurrent theme of his lyrics and as well as the other topics of his songs it makes people think, which is good. But he really can't wonder why that makes people nosy and I don't think he does.

Yeah, I don't even think it bothers him that people are interested or speculate, there's some quote where he said he finds this "interesting", I believe.

I might bother him to get asked about it though.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Yeah, I don't even think it bothers him that people are interested or speculate, there's some quote where he said he finds this "interesting", I believe.

I might bother him to get asked about it though.

I took your post to mean …

that if he’s already made it clear in his lyrics relationships and artwork imagery. Then it should be enough information to satiate curiosity so people don’t need to ask for more, or pry with question.

I feel M is generous in this way, opposite to withholding what he is. He’s not too good at keeping it hidden, and I don’t believe he ever really tried to.