Morrissey Central "IRISH BL❤️❤️D" (January 18, 2024)

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MESSAGES FROM MORRISSEY on MORRISSEY CENTRAL

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Take Action Against the Hate Speech Bill

freespeechireland.ie

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

They will ban original copies of Low In HighSchool in Ireland someday.

Dublin will be razed to the ground on that day. The Irish will not stand idly by while the government deprives them of such classics as When You Open Your Legs.

 

[gashonthenail]

So you’re not ok with this:

• “You cannot incite hatred or violence against others”
• “You cannot use extreme forms of speech to deliberately and recklessly encourage or incite other people to hate or cause harm to a person because of your views”

Correct, I'm not ok with that.
I'm not ok with telling people what they can or cannot say.
I'm not religious - but both those vague clauses above could be used to ban the Bible or the Quran, for example.
What is 'hate' anyway? The bill doesn't even give a definition.
The state got involved in restricting 'love' for centuries. That never worked out well.

 

[JM🇬🇧]

What is 'hate' anyway? The bill doesn't even give a definition.
The state got involved in restricting 'love' for centuries. That never worked out well.

That’s up to the victim to decide.
Maybe one day criticism of the government will be hate speech and land you in jail.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Correct, I'm not ok with that. I'm not ok with telling people what they can or cannot say.
I'm not religious - but both those vague clauses above could be used to ban the Bible or the Quran, for example.
What is 'hate' anyway? The bill doesn't even give a definition.
The state got involved in restricting 'love' for centuries. That never worked out well.

Would you be okay with people being allowed to shout “exterminate the [insert race]!!” Or tweeting that they hope all [insert minority] be burned at the stake? Should everything be allowed all the time and everywhere?

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

That’s up to the victim to decide.

No, like any other crime or public order issue that's only at the time of reporting it.
If an investigation finds otherwise then that's it, not sure why people are acting like this kind of law is novel.

 

[gashonthenail]

Would you be okay with people being allowed to shout “exterminate the [insert race]!!” Or tweeting that they hope all [insert minority] be burned at the stake? Should everything be allowed all the time and everywhere?

So would you want someone being arrested for chanting 'From the river to the sea'?
Or 'Brits out'?
Or 'Homosexuals will burn in hell'?
Ultimately hate is an opinion. A point of view.
I think we should avoid banning points of view.
The line is incitement to commit a crime. But unless that line is crossed, the criminal law should not get involved.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

Should Morrissey, then, be retrospectively arrested for calling the Chinese a subspecies?
Or calling for Margaret Thatcher to be beheaded?

Let me try this new thing you’re all doing… that’s a hate crime, right?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Should Morrissey, then, be retrospectively arrested for calling the Chinese a subspecies?

If not, maybe the fans ( Chinese or not) that were offended, could make a public arrest? maybe after they get his autograph first?

Let me try this new thing you’re all doing… that’s a hate crime, right?

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

I

So would you want someone being arrested for chanting 'From the river to the sea'?
Or 'Brits out'?
Or 'Homosexuals will burn in hell'?
Ultimately hate is an opinion. A point of view.
I think we should avoid banning points of view.
The line is incitement to commit a crime. But unless that line is crossed, the criminal law should not get involved.

I figure as long as no action is taken, and it's only talk, it shouldn't be an issue. Talking is easy. Words can easily be thrown around. Actions are a different story.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

If not, maybe the fans that were offended, could make a public arrest? maybe after they get his autograph first.

Light Housework is currently sprinting to her nearest fancy dress shop...
”One police-woman’s uniform, please!”

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

Light Housework is currently sprinting to her nearest fancy dress shop..
”One police-woman’s uniform, please!”

I'll take one as well, but I demand a hug as well as autograph.

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

Should Morrissey, then, be retrospectively arrested for calling the Chinese a subspecies?
Or calling for Margaret Thatcher to be beheaded?

Let me try this new thing you’re all doing… that’s a hate crime, right?

Someone could report him on the Chinese thing but there's no incitement to violence and the statement isn't targeted at an individual so it would be unlikely to go anywhere on a verbal abuse count.

I thought the Thatcher lyric was how nice it would be, not let's do it.
But it's also a song so it would get by on the work of art argument.

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

I'll take one as well, but I demand a hug as well as autograph.

“Mr Morrissey, I’ll have to take down your particulars..”
“Ooooooooohhhh! Yes, please!”

 

[Ashley_TakeABow]

“Mr Morrissey, I’ll have to take down your particulars..”
“Ooooooooohhhh! Yes, please!”

 

[TheSmiths_1985]

I thought the Thatcher lyric was how nice it would be, not let's do it.
But it's also a song so it would get by on the work of art argument.

I dunno, I heard rumblings of a splinter group on here who were sidling up to Carol with a view to getting close to Maggie and then kicking the shit out of her.

 

[gashonthenail]

Someone could report him on the Chinese thing but there's no incitement to violence and the statement isn't targeted at an individual so it would be unlikely to go anywhere on a verbal abuse count.

Not correct. There doesn't have to be incitement to violence - that is a crime already - there merely has to be expression of 'hatred', whatever that is, based on protected characteristics. And race is one of the characteristics listed in the bill. It also doesn't have to be targeted at an individual - it can be a group. And there doesn't have to be abuse or harm. That is why hate crime legislation changes the nature of what is a crime - there doesn't have be harm or damage caused. It's thought crime.

 

[CrazyFaceGenes]

Not correct. There doesn't have to be incitement to violence - that is a crime already - there merely has to be expression of 'hatred', whatever that is, based on protected characteristics. And race is one of the characteristics listed in the bill. It also doesn't have to be targeted at an individual - it can be a group. And there doesn't have to be abuse or harm. That is why hate crime legislation changes the nature of what is a crime - there doesn't have be harm or damage caused. It's thought crime.

Well the Irish government disputes that part of what you're saying, people can still be bigots and say unpleasant things, we will have to see how they define it when they go back to pushing the law through.

People can report you for saying skinning dogs alive makes you sub-human but it doesn't mean it will go anywhere.

 

[hangingstoogoodforhim]

If children/young adults are telling teachers "I just can't get through this book, it's too much" then the message has no chance of getting through - because they won't read the book. I would imagine most teachers are telling children that "this book used to contain frequent uses of the n-word but it's been replaced by 'slave' to make it more palatable but please bear in mind what the original text said when you read this"... well, if that helps them to get through reading it and absorbing the message, surely that's preferable to them not reading it at all?

If the prevalence of a particular word stops them reading altogether then they are unimaginably fragile and would probably benefit from some toughening up.

Surely it should have been changed to "enslaved person" to stop them having to reach for the smelling salts on a regular basis?

 

[gashonthenail]

The bill also makes it a crime to condone, deny, or grossly trivialize genocide, crimes against humanity, or war crimes.
So anyone in Dublin of Turkish origin who denies the genocide in Anatolia had better be careful.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

So would you want someone being arrested for chanting 'From the river to the sea'?
Or 'Brits out'?
Or 'Homosexuals will burn in hell'?
Ultimately hate is an opinion. A point of view.
I think we should avoid banning points of view.
The line is incitement to commit a crime. But unless that line is crossed, the criminal law should not get involved.

The line is also “incite hatred”.