Conservatives & Morrissey Fans

If you have studied post graduate level advanced economics and disagree fine. I would love to see your models.
Get 15 "economists" in a room and you'll get 16 opinions based on 17 models--none of which actually reflects the real world. "Economists" spend so much time playing with their models that they forget that their models are works of fiction that assume away reality.
 
Get 15 "economists" in a room and you'll get 16 opinions based on 17 models--none of which actually reflects the real world. "Economists" spend so much time playing with their models that they forget that their models are works of fiction that assume away reality.

Hardly true at all... If you said get 15 politicians in a room... then you would be right on track. The study of economics is a hard empirical science, not the soft posturing of philosophers it once was before Dr. Friedman...

Kumo
 
Hardly true at all... If you said get 15 politicians in a room... then you would be right on track. The study of economics is a hard empirical science, not the soft posturing of philosophers it once was before Dr. Friedman...

Kumo
"Hard empirical science"? I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Thanks for the laugh. :)

The economists I've had the misfortune to deal with could barely discuss reality, let alone observe it and make rational conclusions based on that observation. They all needed their models to come up with their guesses--models which make fundamental assumptions about the real world without regard to whether those assumptions square with the real world. The University of Chicago (where they were from) is a cold and unforgiving place surrounded by uninviting neighborhoods--no wonder they stay cloistered together fixating over their "models."

Say, just out of curiousity, which do you think I will meet first, the Easter Bunny? Or the the hypothetical and quite fictional "rational actor" acting purely in his or own rational self-interest (the fiction on which much of this "hard science" is based)?
 
"Hard empirical science"? I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Thanks for the laugh. :)

The economists I've had the misfortune to deal with could barely discuss reality, let alone observe it and make rational conclusions based on that observation. They all needed their models to come up with their guesses--models which make fundamental assumptions about the real world without regard to whether those assumptions square with the real world. The University of Chicago (where they were from) is a cold and unforgiving place surrounded by uninviting neighborhoods--no wonder they stay cloistered together fixating over their "models."

Say, just out of curiousity, which do you think I will meet first, the Easter Bunny? Or the the hypothetical and quite fictional "rational actor" acting purely in his or own rational self-interest (the fiction on which much of this "hard science" is based)?

Oh I see you met a few people from one university and got it all figured out, gee thanks for clearing it up for me. Glad to know my time at UCLA, Pepperdine, Tokyo University, Kyoto University, Fudan University in Shanghai and CERGE-E at Charles University in Prague was all a big sham. I guess I better refund all my consulting fees and tell all my students that I was vastly mistaken because I just found out this guy met some people at the university of Chicago and determined that economics is crap. Thank You so much I could have wasted the rest of my life on this. I better pull out of all my investments and stuff my money under my bed. Wow this is great I'll have so much more free time now. What would I have ever done without your gifted insights...

For Christ sake Friedman was from University of Chicago, I find it very hard to believe your observations are representative.

Kumo
 
Oh I see you met a few people from one university and got it all figured out, gee thanks for clearing it up for me.
Strange criticism from a guy who has got an MBA and some post-graduate work in economics and who (based on that?) claims to have it all figured out.
Glad to know my time at UCLA, Pepperdine, Tokyo University, Kyoto University, Fudan University in Shanghai and CERGE-E at Charles University in Prague was all a big sham. I guess I better refund all my consulting fees and tell all my students that I was vastly mistaken because I just found out this guy met some people at the university of Chicago and determined that economics is crap. Thank You so much I could have wasted the rest of my life on this. I better pull out of all my investments and stuff my money under my bed. Wow this is great I'll have so much more free time now. What would I have ever done without your gifted insights...
It is perfectly logical and not at all unexpected for you to believe--to need to believe--that your chosen field is "hard science." I don't blame you at all. And I didn't say that it was all a "big sham." Economics, though limited, can be useful. But please don't pretend that "economics" is "hard science"--it does not observe the real world, formulate theories to explain the real world, and then test those theories. Economics is nothing without people making policy decisions regarding fundamental values. Those assumptions and fictions which are essential to the economist's work of model-making are choices informed not by science but by opinion, politics, value judgments, etc. It's not like figuring out the speed of light. If you don't realize this, then I guess I can see how you can mistake economics for "hard science."
For Christ sake Friedman was from University of Chicago, I find it very hard to believe your observations are representative.
Sort of like how I find it hard to believe that economists' "models" are representative of the real world?
 
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Strange criticism from a guy who has got an MBA and some post-graduate work in economics and who (based on that?) claims to have it all figured out.It is perfectly logical and not at all unexpected for you to believe--to need to believe--that your chosen field is "hard science." I don't blame you at all. And I didn't say that it was all a "big sham." Economics, though limited, can be useful. But please don't pretend that "economics" is "hard science"--it does not observe the real world, formulate theories to explain the real world, and then test those theories. Economics is nothing without people making policy decisions regarding fundamental values. Those assumptions and fictions which are essential to the economist's work of model-making are choices informed not by science but by opinion, politics, value judgments, etc. It's not like figuring out the speed of light. If you don't realize this, then I guess I can see how you can mistake economics for "hard science."Sort of like how I find it hard to believe that economists' "models" are representative of the real world?


Whatever it is you observed was a very thin slice of the field of economics. Physics is a hard science, but if you sat in on a debate on quarks and if that was your only exposure to the field you might want to think it's all theoretical BS. However the law of gravity is proven fact. So is Okun's law and the law of velocity of money. I didn't post anything about any nebulous models. People here are so far from grasping the basics proven by scientific method, no need to get into subjective and speculative concepts.

Economics is a very large field of study and you cannot stereotype it with limited exposure, you do yourself a grave injustice.

Kumo
 
otherwise I don't understand how come I always tend to agree with him.

LOL! Dude, you always tend to agree with him because you're caught up in hero worship. But by choosing to let a pop singer tell you what all your views on everything under the sun should be, you're actually disagreeing with Morrissey on one of his central themes: Being your own person! Individualism is one of his re-curring themes that I like best.
 
Oh dear. Whether economics is a "hard science" or not is something people have debated for a long-ass time, and obviously it can be distinguished from, say, biology. Though it's also not as "soft" as other social sciences. And, contrary to what a commenter here states, there is some observation of the real world, formulatation of theories to explain the real world, and testing of those theories, in the field.

More importantly to highlight the idiocy on display in this thread: When confronted with someone telling us that economists from the University of Chicago (which I believe has won more Nobel prizes in the field than any other institution, amongst them a couple of the most towering minds of the past 100 years) are irrational and barely in touch with reality because the Unversity of Chicago is a "cold and unforgiving place surrounded by ininviting neighborhoods" -- well there you can be sure you have a monumental fool talking out of his butthole.

Somehow this person can remember he met an economist from the Univ. of Chicago, yet he can't tell us the name of this economist who was so loony tunes he couldn't pass himself off as even semi-rational in normal company. Apparently there's something about the economists at that institution which the commenter resents, but he should read what Milton Friedman said about Keynes, while referring to him as a brilliant thinker: "In every discipline, progress comes from people who make hypotheses, most of which turn out to be wrong, but all of which ultimately point to the right answer."

This is as true in economics as in other sciences, and they have uncovered a lot of right answers and are pointing towards more. It's a serious field. It's amusing to me that leftists who tell us (correctly!) that lay people ought to be concerned about global warming (though unproven outside of models), also wanna tell lay people to pay little attention to any overwhelming consensuses amongst economists (even putting "economists" in quotes!), the overwhelming majority of whom reject the anti-capitalist nuttery and ignorance of so many of the folks posting in forums such as this. Such folks are not just pointing out that lots of economists disagree; they want to run from the right answers about which there is little disagreement in the field, and (as we can see in this forum) trumpet the economics theories of, say, Hugo Chavez.

That their views do considerable harm to the poorest of the poor in this world never seems to give them pause.
 
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Oh dear. Whether economics is a "hard science" or not is something people have debated for a long-ass time, and obviously it can be distinguished from, say, biology. Though it's also not as "soft" as other social sciences. And, contrary to what a commenter here states, there is some observation of the real world, formulatation of theories to explain the real world, and testing of those theories, in the field.

More importantly to highlight the idiocy on display in this thread: When confronted with someone telling us that economists from the University of Chicago (which I believe has won more Nobel prizes in the field than any other institution, amongst them a couple of the most towering minds of the past 100 years) are irrational and barely in touch with reality because the Unversity of Chicago is a "cold and unforgiving place surrounded by ininviting neighborhoods" -- well there you can be sure you have a monumental fool talking out of his butthole.

Somehow this person can remember he met an economist from the Univ. of Chicago, yet he can't tell us the name of this economist who was so loony tunes he couldn't pass himself off as even semi-rational in normal company. Apparently there's something about the economists at that institution which the commenter resents, but he should read what Milton Friedman said about Keynes, while referring to him as a brilliant thinker: "In every discipline, progress comes from people who make hypotheses, most of which turn out to be wrong, but all of which ultimately point to the right answer."

This is as true in economics as in other sciences, and they have uncovered a lot of right answers and are pointing towards more. It's a serious field. It's amusing to me that leftists who tell us (correctly!) that lay people ought to be concerned about global warming (though unproven outside of models), also wanna tell lay people to pay little attention to any overwhelming consensuses amongst economists (even putting "economists" in quotes!), the overwhelming majority of whom reject the anti-capitalist nuttery and ignorance of so many of the folks posting in forums such as this. Such folks are not just pointing out that lots of economists disagree; they want to run from the right answers about which there is little disagreement in the field, and (as we can see in this forum) trumpet the economics theories of, say, Hugo Chavez.

That their views do considerable harm to the poorest of the poor in this world never seems to give them pause.

Economists know everything. they are right. the rest of us are thick.

are there renowned and respected economists in the developing/ third world?

i didn't realise george bush's war on terror and the later gobbledygook inference that this is why iraq was invaded was actually striving to reduce poverty. which has manifestly failed in certain parts of the usa, let alone the rest of the world.

i respect your knowledge but i know a lot about soccer and standard industrial classification codes in the gas industry...
 
No one is debating that economics is a valuable discipline. Kumo has made the stupid mistake of responding to the various people who have disagreed with him by attempting to get the upper hand by listing his (hardly overwhelming) credentials and trotting out some jargon from econ textbooks. It's not a weak argument, it's just totally misapplied. It's embarrassing to see him try it out here because he thinks he's handily winning a debate when he's simply pulling rank on what he thinks is a bunch of yahoos-- a sign of desperation if ever there was one.

Two things are obvious to anyone with a high school diploma: one, that economics is a real and useful set of analytical tools, and two, that economics must rely on other disciplines as soon as it leaves the realm of theory and enters the realm of reality. For example, Kumos says that the tens of thousands of deaths in Iraq are justified because economics tells him that the war staved off a second Great Depression in which millions would die. Millions are more than thousands, therefore: war. Without debating whether that's true or not, or touching on the moral side of that question, let's just take a quick look at what he's saying as it relates to politics.

In 2002 and 2003, in the lead-up to the Iraq war, everyone heard many different theories about why the U.S. should invade Iraq. We all know what they are. I'm not going to open a debate about the justification. I merely want to point out that not once did some economist from Harvard go on Larry King Live and say, "WMDs? Dictators? Al-Qaeda? Minor league. Larry, what if I told you all those reasons paled in comparison to the real reason for war: to avoid a second Great Depression. That's right. I'm talking unemployment, malnutrition, rioting, you name it. Millions of Americans dead. Men, women, and children. Babies, Larry. Babies".

No, we heard a lot of reasons for war but not that one. Oh, we knew the war was going to help somebody-- in fact, the left loved making the accusation that Bush and his team were war profiteers. The issue of war profits were out in the open. But none of the hawks argued for war based on "the law of the velocity of money", or if they did, they were a severely marginalized or ignored minority. And no one is arguing that point now that we're debating whether or not to continue the war, either.

Why is that? If economics is a hard science which can offer us valuable insights into the world and help shape our political policy the same way a knowledge of physics helped the Wright Brothers build an airplane, then what happened? If Kumo is correct, there ought to have been a strong consensus among economists about what to do. The economists must have been itching to get out the real argument for war to the American people.

Did they not agree? Kumo says economics is hard science, so mostly they'd have agreed. Some details here and there would be debated-- a decimal point in the GDP calculation here, a comma in the death toll there-- but they'd have agreed in principle.

Did they not have a receptive White House? George W. Bush has an MBA from Harvard. George W. Bush not only would have agreed with the economists, he'd have been the one to call them up and give them a bullhorn.

Would the citizens not have listened? Are you kidding? The threat of dirty bombs going off in Times Square or Disneyland was enough. Millions dead in a second Great Depression? The Army recruiting offices would have been mobbed.

Somewhere along the way, the economists were excluded from the public debate. I say 'public' because I don't for a moment believe that economists weren't privately consulted about what they thought in 2002 and 2003, and certainly now, and I don't think Kumo or anyone else disagrees with that. So-- if Kumo is right-- this reasoning for the war, based on hard scientific facts and laws, was kept secret. People don't like hearing that it's okay for thousands of innocent people to die so they can maintain their standard of living. Oh, to be sure, they want that. But they don't like hearing it. They don't like admitting it to themselves. It would make the war unpopular, and the war needed popular support.

That's merely one of the limitations of Kumo's argument. Economics can describe relationships, account for flows of money and capital, and predict market fluctuations. Applied properly economics can explain the past and even to a certain extent predict the future. But it cannot account for people. Kumo's field of vision is too narrow. When all the elements are accounted for in any model about the past, present, or future, there are so many variables that the usefulness of economics-- just like all science-- is mitigated. What "laws" do you think Kumo would have used to explain the world on September 10, 2001?

**

Kumo, your posts indicated from the beginning that you were new to Moz-solo, but the more I read your posts I'm wondering if you're new to the Internet. Did you just discover discussion forums? Do you honestly think that you're slumming it with a bunch of idiots who are dazzled by a list of degrees and some (dubiously stated) academic jargon? Your condescending tone makes it sound like you think you're debating some stoned kids you met outside a 7-11 on your way to buy some milk. I've got some news for you: there are many, many different kinds of people who visit this site and you're not impressing or intimidating anyone.
 
I think it's funny when Tories like Morrissey. The image of Dave Cameron bopping along to Irish Blood.. etc. Yeah yeah cos he cycled to the gig, right, but his limo was following him with a change of shoes :rolleyes: But the idea of meat guzzlers being into Morrissey tickles me, too. Like, guys? Like, he hates you?

Anyway, you can't really blame people for wanting to be a bit controversial, and one very effective way of doing that is by becoming a Tory who is under 40 years old. I have to be honest, I did it myself. :eek: But as well as realising it was pretty trag, I began to study Politics as an academic subject - thinking it would assure me that what I thought was right - and of course, it did the opposite and now I cringe at my ill-informed teenage prejudices.

I just don't know what to say. British people are so amazingly clueless about politics, it's no wonder our representatives are all insipid, self-serving career politicians nowadays. But what's the alternative? So you teach citizenship in schools? And whose agenda are you pushing? Stress stress stress. When I was on German exchanges many years ago - I mean when I was 13 and 15 - the German kids I was friends with were discussing the Milosevic situation and going round defacing the right-wingers' election posters. And these were just really average kids, who also did all the usual stuff like skipping school to hang round the local shopping centre and nicking their parents' Xmas booze stash to get wankered off in the park. I dunno where I'm going here...I can see the problem and I can see what we should want to be but I have no idea how to do it :confused:
 
Your condescending tone makes it sound like you think you're debating some stoned kids you met outside a 7-11 on your way to buy some milk. I've got some news for you: there are many, many different kinds of people who visit this site and you're not impressing or intimidating anyone.

Hardly, I wouldn't have mentioned it at all had I based an assumption that all here were stoned slakers. As for your talking points...

Before Milton Friendman, the study of economics was philosophical in nature. Friedman changed all that. He used scientific method and historical data to base his work on. Moving forward it's been that way ever since. Has the US, Japan or the UK had double digit inflation since Friedman explained inflation was a function of the money supply? These 3 nations exclusively follow his monetary policy, didn't you ever wonder why the UK wasn't on the Euro? Of course Friedman had respect for Keynes, Keynes wasn't wrong because he was stupid. He just didn't have access to nor was economic data acurately recorded, hell back then they didn't even know what was important to record. However, people to this day still hang on to Keynes, Marx and others because their disproven theorems somehow fit with their ethical view of the world. Even though in practice it hurts those they are most trying to help. It also doesn't help when politicians push economic agenda that hurts those they claim they are trying to help. They know there is a major disconnect and lack of education within their constituency so they will get more votes and stay in power. (min wage today and humanitarian aid in the 80s are perfect examples of this)

As for why economists don't speak out to the public, well they do publish quite extensively if the public chooses not to read then what can I do? The media is in the entertainment business which is very sad. But Yes I will be the first to admit economists are a bunch of elitests, we tend not to waste our time with the uneducated, we use our own taxonomy to the exclusion of others. However, I thought if the basic proven concepts were explained and presented you guys would get it. Many of you do, many of you can't emotionally handle it.

Within our own (economists) community as soon a 9/11 hit we knew War was the next step, we knew who with, and who would line up where. The only one we were mistaken on was Russia, it was an unusual position for them to take. But alas we underestimated the human factor, we couldn't not have predicted the gross levels of corruption in Russia with the Oil for Food scandal and hence they took an unlikely position.

Many economists feel that the world can be explained with 90% economics and 10% psychology, yet the weight of that 10% can be under estimated. None of this changes the fact that we do have tools that work consistently with great performance and to lump those tools in with the philosophical economic texts of the past and try to say the pratical application of economics is iffy at best, is a great disservice to yourself.

Am I trying to impress? No, trying to educate...
I only need to impress those that pay me.

If you want to hold on to a blind faith I can't stop you, but if you open your eyes and take a peek of how the mechanics of the economy really work, it would be of great benefit to those you most care about. No one is saying you have to like it, just understand it...

Good Luck,
Kumo
 
But the idea of meat guzzlers being into Morrissey tickles me, too. Like, guys? Like, he hates you?
:

I am not too sure about that, Morrissey had very deep love for his Mexican fans in LA, who were often very overweight and breath transmitted sents of recently eaten carne asada or other sinfully delicious mexican treats.

I remember in one interview in the mid 80s he was called out on his leather shoes and he didn't seem to have a problem with it. Does he still wear leather shoes? Or has he opted for PVC these days?

I think Morrissey is a bit shallow in this area, if you love him he loves you... Remeber in early Smiths interviews he had nothing but contempt for American youth then toured the US and fell in love with them. If you told me yeah some day Morrissey is going to move to your home town in LA, I would had said you were completely retarded.

Cheers,
Kumo
 
Hardly, I wouldn't have mentioned it at all had I based an assumption that all here were stoned slakers.

Wrong. You trumpet your superiority at every turn, not least when you talk about educating people here. The last thing you expected was that some visitors to this site would be so obstreperous as to disagree with you, so you thought you could pull rank. But as I said, you don't have the first clue about the academic or professional backgrounds of the many people who post here. You don't realize how silly you sound.

Before Milton Friendman, the study of economics was philosophical in nature. Friedman changed all that. He used scientific method and historical data to base his work on. Moving forward it's been that way ever since. Has the US, Japan or the UK had double digit inflation since Friedman explained inflation was a function of the money supply? These 3 nations exclusively follow his monetary policy, didn't you ever wonder why the UK wasn't on the Euro? Of course Friedman had respect for Keynes, Keynes wasn't wrong because he was stupid. He just didn't have access to nor was economic data acurately recorded, hell back then they didn't even know what was important to record.

Not relevant.

However, people to this day still hang on to Keynes, Marx and others because their disproven theorems somehow fit with their ethical view of the world.

Concerns that a free market economy hurts a great many people because of corruption and human weakness that must be cleaned up is not the same thing as embracing Marx. This is the same ludicrous argument that to be against the war is to be pro-terrorist.

Even though in practice it hurts those they are most trying to help. It also doesn't help when politicians push economic agenda that hurts those they claim they are trying to help. They know there is a major disconnect and lack of education within their constituency so they will get more votes and stay in power. (min wage today and humanitarian aid in the 80s are perfect examples of this). As for why economists don't speak out to the public, well they do publish quite extensively if the public chooses not to read then what can I do? The media is in the entertainment business which is very sad.

But Yes I will be the first to admit economists are a bunch of elitests, we tend not to waste our time with the uneducated, we use our own taxonomy to the exclusion of others. However, I thought if the basic proven concepts were explained and presented you guys would get it. Many of you do, many of you can't emotionally handle it.

Weak. You didn't address my point. Again: George W. Bush backed the war. He has an MBA from Harvard. Most of the people in his Administration (who really call the shots, of course) favor the same policies you do. The last four or five years have been your time. Economists could have prevented a global depression, saving the lives of millions, validating their science forever, and had an administration in place that would have championed them to the moon. Why didn't it happen?

If you're telling me that this administration did not embrace the view of economists-- scientists who (according to you) would have supported the war on economic grounds-- then you're conceding my point. People in the equation matter. Politicians matter. Citizens matter. The media matter. You're admitting that despite the firm grasp of reality you and your kind enjoy, as soon as it leaves your Halls of Wisdom it becomes something else entirely-- corrupted, or seen but not used, or flat-out ignored.

This is what I mean about your argument. You want us to learn about "the law of velocity of money" (a phrase which just tickles me) but at the same time you're admitting that law really has no place in reality because the vast majority of governments are too corrupt to base their policies on it and the people are too stupid to get it.

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about here.

Within our own (economists) community as soon a 9/11 hit we knew War was the next step, we knew who with, and who would line up where.

Flew over your head again, did it?

I was talking about your allegedly omnicient grasp of the world on September 10, not September 12. You know so much about the world as the towers fell. You knew what was happening in the world with almost absolute certainty (except for those pesky Russians). Yet you felt just as certain you understood the world two days earlier. Nineteen men with box-cutters ruined your model.

to lump those tools in with the philosophical economic texts of the past and try to say the pratical application of economics is iffy at best, is a great disservice to yourself.

Yeah, it would be a disservice. Which is why I didn't do it and won't do it anytime in the future. I said economics as a science was mitigated, which you just said yourself with your 90%/10% ratio-- a laughable ratio, by the way.

I only need to impress those that pay me.

Lucky for you, because you'd be starving in the street otherwise.

If you want to hold on to a blind faith I can't stop you, but if you open your eyes and take a peek of how the mechanics of the economy really work, it would be of great benefit to those you most care about. No one is saying you have to like it, just understand it...

Blind faith? Where did I talk about blind faith? Was that the paragraph where I lauded the virtues of socialism?
 
Really? They didn't to me. I think we've seen Kumo before.

Do tell, I didn't recognize him. The "Moz picked out fresh meat" at gigs I'd heard before but not from the "brilliant economist" troll persona.

I'm glad you said that, though, because I wanted to mention that as I've read through Kumo's posts I kept having deja vu-- it's like Kuiper all over again. "What don't you understand about empirical facts, you poor benighted chump?"

Except, to be fair, Kuiper was much smarter and funnier, and it's much sexier when someone tells me I'm a clueless idiot because he's backed up by God, not Milton f***ing Friedman.
 
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Do tell, I didn't recognize him. The "Moz picked out fresh meat" at gigs I'd heard before but not from the "brilliant economist" troll persona.

I'm glad you said that, though, because I wanted to mention that as I've read through Kumo's posts I kept having deja vu-- it's like Kuiper all over again. "What don't you understand about empirical facts, you poor benighted chump?"

Except, to be fair, Kuiper was much smarter and funnier, and it's much sexier when someone tells me I'm a clueless idiot because he's backed up by God, not Milton f***ing Friedman.

It's more the way of operating that is familiar to me. Every few months we get a new poster who claims never to have visited the site before. They start posting as if they have lots of new insights and know more than everyone else. They make it clear they don't have much time for Morrissey these days with veiled insults and disparagements about his character. For a few weeks they seem to virtually live on here permanently pretending to be completely innocent and well meaning while trying to put down other posters with their "superior" wit or knowledge, then they completely disappear.

Then a month or so later a brand new one appear.

Maybe it's just a character trait of ex-Morrissey fans, but it's pretty spooky that they all behave exactly the same way.
 
Wrong. You trumpet your superiority at every turn, not least when you talk about educating people here. The last thing you expected was that some visitors to this site would be so obstreperous as to disagree with you, so you thought you could pull rank. But as I said, you don't have the first clue about the academic or professional backgrounds of the many people who post here. You don't realize how silly you sound.



Not relevant.



Concerns that a free market economy hurts a great many people because of corruption and human weakness that must be cleaned up is not the same thing as embracing Marx. This is the same ludicrous argument that to be against the war is to be pro-terrorist.



Weak. You didn't address my point. Again: George W. Bush backed the war. He has an MBA from Harvard. Most of the people in his Administration (who really call the shots, of course) favor the same policies you do. The last four or five years have been your time. Economists could have prevented a global depression, saving the lives of millions, validating their science forever, and had an administration in place that would have championed them to the moon. Why didn't it happen?

If you're telling me that this administration did not embrace the view of economists-- scientists who (according to you) would have supported the war on economic grounds-- then you're conceding my point. People in the equation matter. Politicians matter. Citizens matter. The media matter. You're admitting that despite the firm grasp of reality you and your kind enjoy, as soon as it leaves your Halls of Wisdom it becomes something else entirely-- corrupted, or seen but not used, or flat-out ignored.

This is what I mean about your argument. You want us to learn about "the law of velocity of money" (a phrase which just tickles me) but at the same time you're admitting that law really has no place in reality because the vast majority of governments are too corrupt to base their policies on it and the people are too stupid to get it.

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about here.



Flew over your head again, did it?

I was talking about your allegedly omnicient grasp of the world on September 10, not September 12. You know so much about the world as the towers fell. You knew what was happening in the world with almost absolute certainty (except for those pesky Russians). Yet you felt just as certain you understood the world two days earlier. Nineteen men with box-cutters ruined your model.



Yeah, it would be a disservice. Which is why I didn't do it and won't do it anytime in the future. I said economics as a science was mitigated, which you just said yourself with your 90%/10% ratio-- a laughable ratio, by the way.



Lucky for you, because you'd be starving in the street otherwise.



Blind faith? Where did I talk about blind faith? Was that the paragraph where I lauded the virtues of socialism?

Yawn, If you are not going to even attempt to digest what I have said there is not point in further discussing this with you. You have twisted the meaning of my statements tnen trying to attack them as if it is something I support. Typical straw-man fallacy...

Good Luck,
Kumo
 
Really? They didn't to me. I think we've seen Kumo before.

Some may have seen me before, I already mentioned I was on here years ago (before your join date...) but forgot my user name and password and started anew. The upcomming tour resparked my interest for Moz info. so I came back...

Cheers,

Kumo
 
Do tell, I didn't recognize him. The "Moz picked out fresh meat" at gigs I'd heard before but not from the "brilliant economist" troll persona.

I'm glad you said that, though, because I wanted to mention that as I've read through Kumo's posts I kept having deja vu-- it's like Kuiper all over again. "What don't you understand about empirical facts, you poor benighted chump?"

Except, to be fair, Kuiper was much smarter and funnier, and it's much sexier when someone tells me I'm a clueless idiot because he's backed up by God, not Milton f***ing Friedman.

Nope not Kulper, not a user name I would have picked... It was most likely an old Roman or Etruscan name.

Kumo
 
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