Mike Joyce on The Smiths, Morrissey allegations - Sam Delaney's News Thing

 

[Nathan Steggles]

Just my opinion, but to me Morrissey is clearly racist.

He is making generalist statements about particular races. His support for Anne Marie Waters in the recent UKIP leadership election is just one example. She is anti-islam; Morrissey is anti-islam. That is racist.

Mike Joyce cannot say Morrissey isn't racist now-a-days - under his own admission, he hasn't spoken to him for years. It may well have been that Morrissey didn't used to be racist (or he hid it well?) when Mike knew him, but as times have changed he hasn't changed with them or that he feels somehow under threat. He reminds me a lot of Briggite Bardot....getting old, losing touch and happy to court controversy in order to stay in the consciousness.

Its interesting that Johnny Marr openly distances himself from Morrissey's recent political views.

I wonder what Tina Dehgani makes of it all....

Erm Islam is not a race, it is a religion. It may be generally followed by members of a certain race but anti-Islam can never be racist by pure definition. Religion is a choice made by individuals to base their lives and conduct by. Christians have historically been the most barbarous of religious people ( crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Roman occupancy etc ). We are all human and should be judged by our actions accordingly.

 

[Peppermint]

What is the qualification to be in line to the throne?
Genetics.

It doesn't matter if Prince Harry is going to marry a traffic light. He is still "Prince Harry" because he was born as Prince Harry. He seems like a real prince of a guy but that's not why he has the title.
The funny thing about the "mixed race" woman he is going to marry is that her "race" (race is an anthropological fiction created to justify imperialism) was never mentioned until the point that their relationship became serious.
I'm talking about the concept of racism as defined by genetic privilege which is shown clearly by the fact that England has a royal family. It's not good for your argument to bring up specific examples or we'll have to talk about the many remarks Prince Phillip has made which show him clearly to be an out of touch racist. And we'd have to talk about the family's ties to Nazi Germany. More recently we'd have to talk about Prince Charles telling the young journalist that she "doesn't look like she is from Manchester."
I'm not even cheating by talking about Harry wearing the Nazi uniform because I think most people know it was a joke and not any sort of endorsement. It was kind of dumb given his family history but he was smoking a lot of marijuana at the time and who knows what else.
But it's not the specific people that are racist, even though some of them plainly are. It is the concept that a person can be Queen or King because of who their parents are and they really are treated like a separate higher race.

You are equating race with bloodline just because you wish it to be so. It's bonkers. The 'genetic privilege' of monarchy you mention has been acquired over nearly 1300 years (you might want to acquaint yourself https://www.britroyals.com/timeline.asp) and evolved, as I mentioned in my earlier post, from primitive social hierarchies, power and wealth. It hasn't just landed, fully formed and ready for the front page of Hello. It's woven into our history and goes a lot deeper than 'privilege'. Nobody could know back in 757 that ours would develop into the current circus, but that's not entirely their fault, given the fact that they're only constitutional these days and the the media do so love a nice photo story. Privileged they certainly are but if you're going to argue they're a race simply because of bloodline + privilege then so are any wealthy family who can trace their lineage back a few hundred years.

 

[Johnnie Ray]

Erm Islam is not a race, it is a religion. It may be generally followed by members of a certain race but anti-Islam can never be racist by pure definition. Religion is a choice made by individuals to base their lives and conduct by. Christians have historically been the most barbarous of religious people ( crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Roman occupancy etc ). We are all human and should be judged by our actions accordingly.

Erm. Xenophobic then. Better?

 

[Roger O]

Didn’t I read somewhere on this site that Morrissey & Mike were lovers during the early years of The Smiths?

That was just wishful thinking on some Mike hating Mozz devotees part. That was funny though.

 

[Pablo Honey]

Mike Joyce can't refuse any chance for talking about Morrissey. It's so nice of him to defend him, but I wonder what's his motivation. Guilt?

 

[Nathan Steggles]

Erm. Xenophobic then. Better?

That really doesn’t qualify either as it is a genuine of people from any other country than your own. I am not an apologist, nor do I condone any hate of any kind, but these words such as racist, xenophobic etc are used so often that their meaning has become lost and people do not necessarily understand what they are accusing people of.

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

Didn’t I read somewhere on this site that Morrissey & Mike were lovers during the early years of The Smiths?

Now that would have been an interesting interview question!

 

[vegan.cro spirit #187]

Just my opinion, but to me Morrissey is clearly racist.

He is making generalist statements about particular races. His support for Anne Marie Waters in the recent UKIP leadership election is just one example. She is anti-islam; Morrissey is anti-islam. That is racist.

Mike Joyce cannot say Morrissey isn't racist now-a-days - under his own admission, he hasn't spoken to him for years. It may well have been that Morrissey didn't used to be racist (or he hid it well?) when Mike knew him, but as times have changed he hasn't changed with them or that he feels somehow under threat. He reminds me a lot of Briggite Bardot....getting old, losing touch and happy to court controversy in order to stay in the consciousness.

Its interesting that Johnny Marr openly distances himself from Morrissey's recent political views.

I wonder what Tina Dehgani makes of it all....

Johnny Marr who? The one dude who looks like Moe from the 3 Stooges with a case of the Chinese stretch
Chinese eyes and a super-sized Clairol bottle? That Johnny Marr? Conducts himself like a 15 year old skateboarder.....
Sings Neil Diamond sounding songs with a walrus voice? Are we talking about the same Johnny
Marr? Sells out his local 15 seat pub?
I dont think Moz associates with musical beeps.
I think thats the dude Moz is always telling to go find a life.

I think he has a new album coming out next week or the next.

 

[g23]

Erm Islam is not a race, it is a religion. It may be generally followed by members of a certain race but anti-Islam can never be racist by pure definition. Religion is a choice made by individuals to base their lives and conduct by. Christians have historically been the most barbarous of religious people ( crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Roman occupancy etc ). We are all human and should be judged by our actions accordingly.

It's rather disingenuous to say that anti-Islamism isn't modern shorthand for "I don't like the vast majority of Arabs." Whenever widespread anti-religious sentiment takes hold, the racial group that most commonly practices said religion gets demonized.

 

[g23]

Johnny Marr who? The one dude who looks like Moe from the 3 Stooges with a case of the Chinese stretch
Chinese eyes and a super-sized Clairol bottle? That Johnny Marr? Conducts himself like a 15 year old skateboarder.....
Sings Neil Diamond sounding songs with a walrus voice? Are we talking about the same Johnny
Marr? Sells out his local 15 seat pub?
I dont think Moz associates with musical beeps.
I think thats the dude Moz is always telling to go find a life.

I think he has a new album coming out next week or the next.

If you'd stop rusty-tromboning Morrissey for even one second and give it a listen, it's not half bad.
I think you have the wrong idea about Johnny's expectations and ambitions for his place in music and career trajectory in general in 2018.

 

[Dingoatemybabby]

If you'd stop rusty-tromboning Morrissey for even one second and give it a listen, it's not half bad.
I think you have the wrong idea about Johnny's expectations and ambitions for his place in music and career trajectory in general in 2018.

G23, I agree with you, but trying to reason with vegan.cro is like poking a rabid chihuahua with a stick. I do think the anti-Johnny posts are laugh-out-loud funny though!

 

[g23]

G23, I agree with you, but trying to reason with vegan.cro is like poking a rabid chihuahua with a stick. I do think the anti-Johnny posts are laugh-out-loud funny though!

I mainly just wanted to accuse it of being a rusty trombonist if I'm going to be honest here.

 

[Roger O]

That should put this ridiculous notion to rest. "Skinny said hed been told this by someone".

Oh, come on. Lets just hear a little more about this. Maybe Joe Rogan will get interested.

 

[Amy]

Skinny said he'd been told this by someone 'in the know'. I believe (unless I'm remembering it wrongly) that it was the latter years - hence that weirdness towards the end when Mike became the designated spokesman for the group, telling Johnny which tracks they would record. Not sure I believe it myself although it certainly puts a fascinating twist on all that followed.

I've heard some truly crazy shit on this site, but that was the best by far. Just thinking about the court case in light of this makes me laugh.

 

[Uncleskinny]

I've heard some truly crazy shit on this site, but that was the best by far. Just thinking about the court case in light of this makes me laugh.

Well you'd better get used to it, because I have no reason to believe it's NOT true. And I'm not the only one to cross-check that.

 

[Uncleskinny]

Skinny said he'd been told this by someone 'in the know'. I believe (unless I'm remembering it wrongly) that it was the latter years - hence that weirdness towards the end when Mike became the designated spokesman for the group, telling Johnny which tracks they would record. Not sure I believe it myself although it certainly puts a fascinating twist on all that followed.

This is precisely what I was told, and if you look back, I was not the only one offering this information.

 

[Peppermint]

This is precisely what I was told, and if you look back, I was not the only one offering this information.

You've got to admit, it is a bit crazy-sounding, hence people are bound to be sceptical. I'd love to know who told you, though... don't suppose you are able to divulge?

 

[Uncleskinny]

You've got to admit, it is a bit crazy-sounding, hence people are bound to be sceptical. I'd love to know who told you, though... don't suppose you are able to divulge?

There's no way I can tell you. If you go back, you'll find the story of how they told me, where and when. And believe me, they would most certainly know.

 

[Peppermint]

There's no way I can tell you. If you go back, you'll find the story of how they told me, where and when. And believe me, they would most certainly know.

Yes, I remember it quite well. If it wasn't for the fact that it sounds bonkers, it was quite convincing (if you know what I mean). How about... was it another band member? Or a former member of the crew? Or someone from Rough Trade? Give us some clues, Skinny!

 

[Uncleskinny]

Yes, I remember it quite well. If it wasn't for the fact that it sounds bonkers, it was quite convincing (if you know what I mean). How about... was it another band member? Or a former member of the crew? Or someone from Rough Trade? Give us some clues, Skinny!

I can't tell you. I just can't. You're just going to have to take my word that they meant it, and they would know.