Danny
Senior Member
..about Morrissey's private life.
Interview with Visconti
- Thread starter Danny
- Start date
..about Morrissey's private life.
Sunbags
Sunbags
Yes, finally!!! It was about why Visconti said what he said about his private life. But it was not about his private life (or at least, that's not what I was focusing on, anyway).
Jones
Senior Member
But wasn't your argument that he was only saying that about Morrissey's private life to keep Morrissey happy? And when challenged to find a quote that said something different about Morrissey's private life from someone who was no longer on good terms with Morrissey you couldn't do it?
So you gave us a load of irrelevant quotes from mainly anonymous people calling him evil which were probably made up by journalists.
I'm pretty convinced Visconti said that about Morrissey's private life simply because that's what all he knows about it, not because he has to say that to still be friends with Morrissey. He's a world famous record producer. He doesn't have to lie for anyone.
Sunbags
Sunbags
Well done!! Got it one, my dear. Although I wouldn't say 'to keep Morrisssey happy', I rather 'loyalty' as the reason. But what's your point?
No, I was asked to give quotes from people who were being nasty about Morrissey, who were not on good terms with him. But none of those quotes gave any details about his private life. Why? His private life is irrelevant to my arguement.
Well, you can't convince me of this, and I couldn't convince you of the opposite. So have a nice night!!
Danny
Senior Member
I think you're a bit muddled. One minute you're saying comments about his private life is the point. The next, you're saying the complete opposite.
Sunbags
Sunbags
No, I don't think you can follow what I'm saying. When did I say his private life was the point of my arguement? Please tell me where I said this. Did I, or did I not, state that the reasons why people said what they said about him, irrespective of whether these things were true or false, was what was central to my arguement. Whether what they said was true or false or whether they actually knew things about him or did not is all irrelevant to what I'm saying, and in effect, so is the truth about Morrisseys' private life.
Danny
Senior Member
You are basically saying you don't believe what Visconti said about his private life are you not? What Visconti said wasn't particularly flattering or not flattering. It was pretty noncommital. Yet you've decided he only said that to be nice to Morrissey because Morrissey will be angry if he says anything else. When asked if you had any evidence of people saying something to the contrary, you couldn't find any. Not even a quote from any ex-colleagues who make it perfectly clear at all other times that they hate his guts.
Sunbags
Sunbags
1. Yes, what Visconti said was noncommital. It would certainly not upset anyone.
2. Yes, I don't believe that Visconti would reveal anything about Morrissey, if he knew certain things. However, that is an opinion of mine. It is obvious to me that you don't share that opinion. We don't agree. End of.
3. Now, last of all, it is obvious that you don't know what those quotes are in relation to. They are examples of people who have been dropped by Morrissey, and then were scathing whilst talking about him. That's all. I posted this at the start of the thread:
"The truth perhaps? When I said "approved" I meant that Morrissey would not be happy if TV had said that M was out shagging every night of the week, whether it were true or not. Presumably. I think there has been a few times when people who were dropped by Morrissey said unflattering things about him, but they were not necessarily about his love life."
And that's why I was asked for them, although it seems that they were deemed by some to be in relation to something completely different, which was the inns-and-outs of Morrisseys' private life. I have no idea where THAT came from!
"Yet you've decided he only said that to be nice to Morrissey because Morrissey will be angry if he says anything else. When asked if you had any evidence of people saying something to the contrary, you couldn't find any."
Here you seem to be asking me if I have any evidence that other people believe that Morrissey would not be angry had Visconti said something else. I don't know what other people think about this, save for others that have posted in this thread about it.
Danny
Senior Member
You were asked for quotes that went against what Visconti was saying, not for nasty quotes about Morrissey. I think that's where you are getting confused. The issue was never about whether some people do not like Morrissey, it was whether anyone had ever said anything different to what Visconti was saying. That's what you can't provide.
Sunbags
Sunbags
I really don't appreciate you insinuating that I am confused, merely because you have your own agenda, which you are trying to get me to argue about with you. You want me to find evidence of someone saying something which contradicts what Visconti said. I think it's rather unfair of you to ask me this, seeing as, and I really hope it sinks in this time, I never claimed that someone had said something to contradict Visconti. I only said that certain people, no longer in Morrisseys' favour, had said unflattering things about him, and hence, I am only required to give quotes which back that up. And I have done. If I was asked for quotes that went against what Visconti was saying, I shouldn't have been. Why should I have to provide such quotes? If the possibilty of Morrisseys' dark secrets being revealed by someone elses' quotes scares you so much, then go and dis-prove it to yourself! Even if such quotes did exist, they would still be irrelevant to what I was saying. I never claimed that "Those in Morrisseys' favour tell the truth, and those out of his favour lie!". All I said was that many people who had been dropped by Morrissey tended not to be so nice about him, which isn't really a great sweeping claim, by the way.
"The issue was never about whether some people do not like Morrissey, it was whether anyone had ever said anything different to what Visconti was saying."
The discussion is about neither of these things! You have just decided that they are. So since you have changed the topic of conversation, why include me in it? I have no interest in discussing either of the aforementioned "issues" (are these what pass for issues these days? Saddening, most saddening!).
nightandday
New Member
OMG, Sunbags, you really are confused!!! As Danny explained, you were not asked to provide unflattering comments about Morrissey, you were asked to provide comments that contradict Visconti's statement! I thought that was clear and obvious, especially since that's what we've been discussing all along, and especially since I noted in my post on page 1 that people have said unflattering things about him (such as, he's distant, passive-aggressive, has low 'interpersonal skills', tends to cast off people, never sacks them in person but uses other people for that end, etc. etc.), but despite that, none of them ever had a story about his private life to share:
In other words, none of them said anything that would contradict Visconti's statement. So why would we think that Visconti was just trying to please Morrissey?
Your post where you listed a lot of unflattering quotes about Morrissey from people who obviously hated him only confirmed what I had said. None of these people seem to feel 'loyal' and they certainly weren't saying things that would please Morrissey - but none of them said anything about any secret sex life of Morrissey's that they would supposedly know about; if they had known something like that, I'm sure they'd spill it out, and the journalists would be very eager to print it (e.g. the guy who wrote that Uncut 1998 article was obviously trying to get 'dirt' on Morrissey).
In other words, none of them said anything that would contradict Visconti's statement. So why would we think that Visconti was just trying to please Morrissey?
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Sunbags
Sunbags
No, my dear, just because I refuse to divert into another conversation with yourself and Danny concerned entirely with proving that there are no 'Morrissey sex scandals' to be revealed, does not mean that I am confused. You are still asking me to provide quotes which contradict what Visconti said...........but why? Why on earth should I have to provide such information? If I had claimed that I knew of people who had said something different to Visconti, then of course I should be expected to back that up. But the problem is, and I know you find this impossible to grasp, but I'll try, I never made such a claim!! I really don't see why I'm being asked (now!
) for quotes to back up something I never said. I am not the person to settle any doubts or grievances which you may have about Morrisseys' private life. You said that you noted in your first post that people had said unflattering things about Morrissey in the past. I said the same thing in my post. So then, why the theatrics? Did you just want an arguement?Well, it is very obvious that those quotes were not posted as evidence of people opposing Viscontis' view. But I think we're still waiting for the penny to drop. Whether you believe Visconti was trying to please Morrissey or not is down to yourself. It seems to infuriate both you and Danny that I believe that Visconti, for better or worse, was being...........diplomatic.
Jones
Senior Member
alsatian
vivid and in my prime
HEy! don't underestimate us!
Even in Belgium they run that show. no offense sorry that was off-topic
Sunbags
Sunbags
Then what were all those quotes that you dug up for?
For the millionth time - merely to show that people had said unflattering things about him, no longer needed to be loyal, if you like. I was simply discussing (or trying to, at least) the whole question of loyalty. Nothing more sinister than that, I'm afraid. The quotes were not in support of any claim that Morrisseys' private life had been revealed by many castaways. My remark that Morrissey had been bad-mouthed by excommunicates was not intended to hint that I had certain information about Morrisseys' personal life. So will the sharks please stop circling now?
Danny
Senior Member
You still don't get the point. The argument was not ever about whether people had ever said unflattering things about Morrissey. That's been said to you many times and you still won't take it in. So the quotes you picked out to prove your point did no such thing. They were irrelevant to what was being discussed.
Sunbags
Sunbags
Well, of course I won't take it in when you are simply wrong. If you had bothered to read what I had initially said, you would see that I only made a remark alluding to the fact that people had said bad things about him in the past. And yourself and nightandday have (for some bizarre reason) taken this as a cue to demand quotes contradicting what Visconti said. You are both being utterly ridiculous. By the way, what do you think was being discussed? And what do you think my point was? Also, my dear lad, how in the name of God could I have contributed a point to a discussion I didn't even know was going on, yet which you have both decided was (presumably and quite nicely, too, for the purposes of pushing your own little agendas)? All that I contributed, to this tapestry of words which you charmingly describe as a discussion, was an interpretation of what Worm had said, a remark citing that Morrissey had been bad-mouthed in the past by former associates, the opinion that had Visconti said something 'different'; Morrissey would not be very happy, and a few points about loyalty. That is a summary of the content of my contribution to this.....thread. Now, here is another question - given that you obviously never read/understood what I had previously said, and that you now have a brief account of what it entailed, can tell me how I lead you to believe that I had quotes refuting what Visconti had said? (Hint - Use logic for this one).
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nightandday
New Member
No, my dear, just because I refuse to divert into another conversation with yourself and Danny concerned entirely with proving that there are no 'Morrissey sex scandals' to be revealed, does not mean that I am confused. You are still asking me to provide quotes which contradict what Visconti said...........but why? Why on earth should I have to provide such information? If I had claimed that I knew of people who had said something different to Visconti, then of course I should be expected to back that up. But the problem is, and I know you find this impossible to grasp, but I'll try, I never made such a claim!! I really don't see why I'm being asked (now!
Well, it is very obvious that those quotes were not posted as evidence of people opposing Viscontis' view. But I think we're still waiting for the penny to drop. Whether you believe Visconti was trying to please Morrissey or not is down to yourself. It seems to infuriate both you and Danny that I believe that Visconti, for better or worse, was being...........diplomatic.
1) it's absurd to tell someone that they "just want an argument" or accuse them of "theatrics" (?), when this can very much apply to yourself.
2) the only thing that is obvious is that you make no sense. FYI you don't 'infuriate' me, I just don't get what is it that you're trying to say. So, you don't think that Visconti lied to please Morrissey, but he was "being..........diplomatic".
What was 'diplomatic' about it? By saying he was 'diplomatic' you are implying that he was hiding something he supposedly knows, something that Morrissey is supposedly eager to hide. Besides, it's not like what he said about Morrissey is either flattering or unflattering in itself. Or do you think it is? Hmmm, that's interesting. 3) "I am not the person to settle any doubts or grievances which you may have about Morrisseys' private life. " Really? Well, who would think!!
LOL You're not only confused, my dear, you seem to be assuming an awful lot. Doubts or grievances? Why would I have any 'doubts' about Morrissey's private life? I haven't expressed any beliefs about Morrissey's private life, so what would I be doubting? And I am at a loss to see what kind of 'grievances' I would have about his private life? Please tell me, what could possibly 'grieve' me about Morrissey's private life, and why? Maybe you have some 'grievances'?
Sunbags
Sunbags
1) it's absurd to tell someone that they "just want an argument" or accuse them of "theatrics" (?), when this can very much apply to yourself.
Oh really? Well, with all due respect, you're not the one being badgered for information here. In fact, you are the one doing the badgering. And you continue to do so even though I've explained to you why you have no right to demand such information from me.
2) the only thing that is obvious is that you make no sense. FYI you don't 'infuriate' me, I just don't get what is it that you're trying to say. So, you don't think that Visconti lied to please Morrissey, but he was "being..........diplomatic".
By saying he was being 'diplomatic' I was implying that he was hiding something he supposedly knows which Morrissey is eager to hide? Now who's being assumptive? This is more evidence that you, as you said yourself actually, can't understand what I'm saying. That is the case and it's certainly not my fault. I used 'diplomatic' to mean inoffensive, or to use your phrase - neither flattering nor unflattering. And here is further evidence of your lack of understanding:
"So, you don't think that Visconti lied to please Morrissey"
Is that what I think? I dont ever remember saying that I thought Visconti wouldn't lie so as not to offend Morrissey. Why bother arguing with me when you've decided, rather arrogantly, I think, what my thoughts are? You are opportunistically insinuating that I have said certain things which, coincidently, suit whatever line of attack you have decided to take.
3) "I am not the person to settle any doubts or grievances which you may have about Morrisseys' private life. " Really? Well, who would think!!
Well, you seem to think! Why else would you be asking me for quotes which contradict what Visconti said, even though I never claimed to have such information? And you're right, what doubts or grievances could you have now that no-one here has given you evidence in contradiction of Viscontis' statement (but you had to make sure, didn't you?).
By the way, you still haven't told me why you think I should have to provide quotes contradicting what Visconti said.
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