"Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Brown, in the Daily Mail

Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Craig Brown is also Private Eye's satirical diarist. Past the eye-catching headline, I think his point about Lennon's Working Class Hero is very well made.

Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher - Daily Mail
By CRAIG BROWN

Excerpt:

One of the most striking characteristics of Nelson Mandela was his complete absence of self-pity. After 27 years in prison, most of us might have emerged with a ‘Why me?’ look on our faces, but somehow Mandela looked full of hope.

In this, as in so many other respects, he was out of kilter with the times.

One of this year’s bestsellers, the autobiography of Morrissey, is awash with all the self-pity one might expect from the composer of the Top Ten song Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kewpie

Member
Moderator
Subscriber
Re:

Craig Brown wrote it for Daily Hate readers who are known for being a smug.

Don't take it seriously.
 

Oh my god. it's Robby!

spontaneously luminescent
Re:

OK, so yeah, our Moz is whiner, we all know that :straightface:
but yeah, I more see his point about latter day Conservatives and how many now tend to be whiners :crazy:
its embarrassing, its really bad with the American "Tea Party" bunch of angry whiney pathetic sore losers :cool:
You think Ronald Reagan or better yet Winston Churchill whined like they do?
no, I think not...
 

Uncleskinny

It's all good
Subscriber
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?

Perfect sense, I identify with all of it. I think the parallel I was drawing was between the Lennon lyrics Brown quotes in the article, and Morrissey himself, especially in the light of the Autobiography.

P.
 

Chip

Member
Re:

OK, so yeah, our Moz is whiner, we all know that :straightface:
but yeah, I more see his point about latter day Conservatives and how many now tend to be whiners :crazy:
its embarrassing, its really bad with the American "Tea Party" bunch of angry whiney pathetic sore losers :cool:
You think Ronald Reagan or better yet Winston Churchill whined like they do?
no, I think not...

I suspect they do. Conservatives have been whining and embracing a faux sense of victimization since Edmund Burke.
 

celibate

Forever Ill
what a dumbhead , it's comparing vegans and meateaters

'and they say he's mentall' ... 5 weeks nr 1 in the paperbackbooks list, that hurts by the ones who can't accept this ...
 

miss anna

New Member
what a dumbhead , it's comparing vegans and meateaters

'and they say he's mentall' ... 5 weeks nr 1 in the paperbackbooks list, that hurts by the ones who can't accept this ...

Unfortunately, this article is essentially a much shorter rewrite of Craig Brown's review of 'Autobiography'. I don't know if the review was included on 'Solo' but it's worth checking out. It was very provocative but an intelligent read, even if he ended up awarding the book only two stars. I'm sure his comments in the review would start another debate, pro and con, so check it out.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?

You make perfect sense and it was put beautifully.

- marred.
 

Kilt Uncle

Active Member
I can't believe that there was an article in the Daily Mail that wasn't about Princess Diana.
 

bored

Lust a prima vista
I can't believe that there was an article in the Daily Mail that wasn't about Princess Diana.

Hahahahah

Maybe there will be a new list of "coincidences" between Thatcher and Moz.

As far as the article goes, I can't even bring myself to read it. The title is clearly meant to get a rise out of people. Don't feed the trolls.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
"One of the most striking characteristics of Nelson Mandela was his complete absence of self-pity. After 27 years in prison, most of us might have emerged with a ‘Why me?’ look on our faces, but somehow Mandela looked full of hope."

Mandela knew full well, "Why me?" He'd plead guilty to 156(!) counts of political violence at his trial. ....including the cowardly bombing of Johannesburg train station. PW Botha offered him his freedom in 1985 in return if he would only renounce violence. Mandela refused.....this was the sixth time that he had done so.

Amnesty International refused to recognise him as a prisoner of conscience throughout his sentence due to his ongoing commitment to violence and the targeting of civilians as a political strategy.

How quick we forget.
 

bluemozz

Member
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

Hats off, very well put and funny.
I have to disagree with that. I get his point, but I think people tend to easily forget Morrissey, Lennon and others are artists.
The person you are and the artist you are can be very different.
Morrissey built his career and reputation on writing and singing the words for people's darkest times and feelings. That's why people love his songs.
He talks about what he knows, it doesn't mean that's how he feels deep inside.

I understand that because I was born in the North, I grew up on depressing, cold streets where poverty, depression, addictions, violence and anger were common.
I was middle-class and a bit spoiled and went to good schools and even went on holidays every Summer. We weren't rich but we weren't working class.
But I went to school with the working-class kids, I played with them on the streets and even though money wasn't our main issue, we had very similar worries and fears as our working-class friends and neighbours. That's what I know, not necessarily what I am.

My point is it is not because you are considered middle-class that you cannot sing / write / talk about working-class. If you grew up in that environment, you are not lying about it.
So to me, saying Paul should have been the one singing 'Working-class hero' doesn't make any sense. John grew up in Liverpool in the 50's, middle or working class is not relevant, you are in it whether you want it or not and yes, he knew what he was talking about.

As for the article part about Morrissey acting miserable and complaining, again that's not reality, it's his 'character', the one he's known for.
If Morrissey was happily married with kids, living in a pretty surbub with a white picket fence and a labradoodle in the garden and was singing about his perfect life and perfect love and happiness, who would buy his records? I wouldn't.
He is doomed to be that other person. The one who lives in a pigsty of a life. In truth, that's not who he really is.

It's a bit too easy to blame him for being miserable and a bit too easy to blame Lennon for being middle-class.
Do I make any sense?
 

MadeinSalford

New Member
Re: "Oh Morrissey, you're just like Mrs Thatcher" - Craig Browm, in the Daily Mail

Hats off, very well put and funny.

You make perfect sense and it was put beautifully.

- marred.

Perfect sense, I identify with all of it. I think the parallel I was drawing was between the Lennon lyrics Brown quotes in the article, and Morrissey himself, especially in the light of the Autobiography.

P.

Oh thanks guys, you made me blush :blushing:

And now, yes, I understand the parallel you were talking about Uncleskinny.
 
"One of the most striking characteristics of Nelson Mandela was his complete absence of self-pity. After 27 years in prison, most of us might have emerged with a ‘Why me?’ look on our faces, but somehow Mandela looked full of hope."

Mandela knew full well, "Why me?" He'd plead guilty to 156(!) counts of political violence at his trial. ....including the cowardly bombing of Johannesburg train station. PW Botha offered him his freedom in 1985 in return if he would only renounce violence. Mandela refused.....this was the sixth time that he had done so.

Amnesty International refused to recognise him as a prisoner of conscience throughout his sentence due to his ongoing commitment to violence and the targeting of civilians as a political strategy.

How quick we forget.
its the double standards of the British media, they call nelson Mandela a hero, a freedom fighter, yet they call bobby sands a terrorist, they don't even mention the fact that thatcher called Mandela a terrorist
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
its the double standards of the British media, they call nelson Mandela a hero, a freedom fighter, yet they call bobby sands a terrorist, they don't even mention the fact that thatcher called Mandela a terrorist

The comparison of Mandela to Sands is facile nonsense.

Mandela, and the ANC, were denied any democratic means to express their views. They had no vote, they had no right to assembly, they had no freedom of the press, no political party through which their views were expressed.

Sands was a member of the IRA, who had their own political party that stood in elections, freedom to vote, freedom of assembly, their own newspaper.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Let's face it, neither Mandela nor Sands ever suffered or cared as much as Morrissey. 27 years? Pah! Try being forced to give money to a drummer just because they supposedly earned it.
 
The comparison of Mandela to Sands is facile nonsense.

Mandela, and the ANC, were denied any democratic means to express their views. They had no vote, they had no right to assembly, they had no freedom of the press, no political party through which their views were expressed.

Sands was a member of the IRA, who had their own political party that stood in elections, freedom to vote, freedom of assembly, their own newspaper.
Have you ever heard of gerrymandering? The vote rigging that went on in the six counties to guarantee a unionist majority, what about interment? The illegal indefinite detention of individuals without charge, not so different from apartheid is it?
 

markmustb1

Member
"One of the most striking characteristics of Nelson Mandela was his complete absence of self-pity. After 27 years in prison, most of us might have emerged with a ‘Why me?’ look on our faces, but somehow Mandela looked full of hope."

Mandela knew full well, "Why me?" He'd plead guilty to 156(!) counts of political violence at his trial. ....including the cowardly bombing of Johannesburg train station. PW Botha offered him his freedom in 1985 in return if he would only renounce violence. Mandela refused.....this was the sixth time that he had done so.

Amnesty International refused to recognise him as a prisoner of conscience throughout his sentence due to his ongoing commitment to violence and the targeting of civilians as a political strategy.

How quick we forget.
informative and written without bias !
a week of hearing how he changed the world
glad to see some of the shine taken from this "saint"
 

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