Johnny Marr interview by Simon Hattenstone in The Guardian; extract from memoir

It's a big, wide-ranging interview and the book extract is revealing. Tons of stuff to interest folk here. Should have it up within an hour or two, when I get back.

**EDIT** Here we go. Don't say I never give you anything. I find the last page the most revealing and interesting.

**FURTHER EDIT** - weblink here...

Johnny Marr: ‘The conversation about re-forming the Smiths came out of the blue' - The Guardian
By Simon Hattenstone
It’s 29 years since the Smiths split up, and founding member Johnny Marr isn’t angry any more. So what happened when he and Morrissey met for a drink?

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Media coverage:

• Johnny Marr reveals he met with Morrissey to discuss reforming The Smiths - Manchester Evening News. Link posted by Famous when dead.
• Johnny Marr opens up about the reasons behind The Smiths’ split - NME. Link from Rene.
• Marr: The Smiths almost re-formed in 2008 - BBC News
  
• Johnny Marr Reveals Morrissey Talked Smiths Reunion in 2008 - Rolling Stone
  

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[ACTON]

Whilst I don't disagree with the fact that Morrissey brought along some great vocal melodies, the fact remains that every Smith's record lists the songwriting credits as: 'Words by Morrissey. Music by Johnny Marr'. Given that Morrissey designed those sleeves, and clearly wanted the pair to be credited in this way, it's a bit rich to criticise journalists for following his lead.

You're not wrong. Of course I know about the song writing credits but I always felt that was a throwback to Moz's idea of a more romantic age of music. Moz sold himself short. I agree with what you said and maybe it is a bit rich to blame journalists. You've probably right. I just get fed up of reading that Marr wrote the music and Moz added lyrics. I think everyone neglects to mention that Moz's interpretation of the songs via his unique vocal melodies is what actually makes the song.

 

[AztecCamera]

I heard a rumor on the beach today that John was invited to Steve and Nancy's house for Thanksgiving. She makes a great Tofu and Soybean baked casserole with of course her famous spaghetti and marinara sauce. I hope John's kids get along with lil' Sammy and his spoiled snot nose friends during the annual Morrissey Thanksgiving Football game on the beach. That's real Football, not Human Foozball or Sock er.

 

[ACTON]

Says who? And why? Like I wrote, people have way too much invested in abstract ideas such as you wrote. So, Iggy Pop was a wild rock icon who should never grow old? Shpuld he have died like Bolan to make him a legend? Or your first big love was a teenage girl and she sould be remembered as such and she must stay like this?

I agree. The therapeutic value alone for Moz to play with Johnny would make it worthwhile. Moz could invite Johnny to play at a concert as a special guest and see how it goes. For once we could hear How Soon Is Now played right.

 

[ACTON]

I heard a rumor on the beach today that John was invited to Steve and Nancy's house for Thanksgiving. She makes a great Tofu and Soybean baked casserole with of course her famous spaghetti and marinara sauce. I hope John's kids get along with lil' Sammy and his spoiled snot nose friends during the annual Morrissey Thanksgiving Football game on the beach. That's real Football, not Human Foozball or Sock er.

Do you ever write something worth reading? You weren't always like this. Did you have a stroke?

 

[ACTON]

Didn't know about the 2008 meeting. That was nice to hear.

Would also like to echo what others have said about it being a shame that no-one in that pub snapped a sneaky photo of them. Am I right in saying that Morrissey and Marr have never been photographed together since The Smiths split up? Trivial I know, but as a Smiths fan, it would really 'mean something' to see them together again. If they ever get inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, I'd like to think they'd both attend.

I think Morrissey and Marr have both had their periods of wondering what a Smiths reunion would be like. Morrissey is clearly far more reluctant to admit this publicly. The bottom line is, it would ruin their legacy. Part of the greatness and mystique of The Smiths is the fact that they have been inactive since 1987 and are considered to always remain so. The fact that they are now out of reach and unobtainable adds to their charm. Isn't it true that we always want what we cannot have? I'm sure Morrissey wrote a song about that.

They have many younger fans, but no-one under 35 will have any memory of The Smiths, and for those fans that longing adds to the greatness of the band. For those old enough to remember them when they were active, the assumption that it will never come round again makes us appreciate their back catalogue all the more.

It should also be remembered that whilst the four members of The Smiths may still be alive, that doesn't make a reunion possible. A reunion of them all as fifty-somethings wouldn't be The Smiths. They were a group of four young men who made beautiful songs in the 1980s, and it is there that they must stay.

You could be right. I'm sickened to say that my brother wanted me to go see The Smiths in Leisureland in Galway back in the Hatful of Hollow tour and I said no. There went my one chance to see them. Chalk it up to being too young. Next chance I got was Moz in Dublin in 1991 and I made sure to be there.

 

[Anonymous]

Morrissey emails.

Wide to receive.

 

[ACTON]

Two great photos that I, for one, had never seen before...

As for The Smiths reuniting...very nice, very nice, but maybe in the next world.

Moz looks like the coolest man on Earth in the first photo.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Thank you for your kind wishes, but I can only reiterate my feelings. I do a lot of foreign travel, and I feel bereft after a couple of days. So I do get Johnny's positions. Maybe I'm just soppy that way.

Unclesoppy.

 

[ACTON]

I know everyone will see bits in this interview they think convey more than the words themselves do, but I picked out some key points that do just that from my point of view:

• “Everything that was obsessive, excessive and poetic, all the big visions I carried around inside me, were also in him. The love of pop culture, and the pure dedication, was mirrored in my partner. I’ve never seen it in anyone else before, and never in exactly the same way since. And the desperation. He was looking for someone like me and I was looking for someone like him. And we liked each other straight away. We really liked each other.”

• Marr says his relationship with Morrissey was as close as is possible without being lovers. Was he in love with Morrissey? “No, because I was in love with Angie [his then girlfriend, now wife], but we definitely loved each other. I think we all did.”

• “…and I discovered that what I just thought was decency was a political position. You look after people who are less fortunate, and anyone who does otherwise is just f***ing ghastly.”

• Did he and Morrissey have similar politics? “Yeah, we did back then.” And now? “I wouldn’t expect so. Probably not.”

• The day that he confirmed he was leaving, the other band members issued a statement wishing him luck and saying: “Other guitarists are being considered to replace him.” How did that make him feel? “I literally thought it was a joke. It was the final nail in the coffin and it took me a long time to forgive them. It was pretty callous. But I don’t hold it against anybody now. I absolutely don’t.”

• Angie seems to be the glue in his story. “Well, she’s the person who’s enabled me to be who I am and vice versa. She’s completed me, and I’ve completed her.”

• Which band did he enjoy playing with most? “Modest Mouse,” he says without a beat. More than the Smiths? “Yeah. People don’t believe it when I say that. I love Modest Mouse so much because the chemistry of those guys was a real brotherhood. They were a great American band, and I really wanted to be in a great American band.”

• Was Joyce justified in bringing the court case? “Mike had a right to do it. I don’t think he should have done because we had an agreement. Looking back, I would have done things differently. I’d make sure you don’t move a muscle without a contract – for everybody’s benefit. Young people aren’t good at doing that kind of thing, and we had to pay the price for it.” Would he still regard the 10% Joyce and Rourke were paid as a fair deal? “I would be more generous,” he says. “But it wasn’t a band of equals. Thirty-odd years later I think anyone can see that.” What would be a fair percentage? He laughs. “You know what? I’d wind up in court if I answered that.”

• “The conversation about re-forming came out of the blue. I didn’t go there with that in mind. But there had been quite a few rumours about it, so naturally we discussed it. ‘It could happen…’ ‘How d’you feel about it?’ ‘What if?’ And off we went.” Who was more keen? “I think we were both as keen as each other.”

• Did Morrissey see a difference? “I would think so, because I was in the pub not drinking. And he was knocking back the pints. I don’t think it’s any secret that he likes a drink; he’s very pro-drinking. But I’d changed quite a lot. I’ve got about nine tattooos for a start.”

• The only other person I knew who might comprehend it the same way was Morrissey, and so I emailed him the picture. There’d been no contact between us for a long time, but I got a reply within minutes. He hadn’t seen the picture, and he was equally surprised and impressed.

I don't get why Johnny always wanted to be in a 'great American band'. Without doubt the best groups have come from the UK: The Smiths, Moz, The Jam, Siouxsie, The Cure, Paul Weller, New Order, Suede, Gene, The Beatles, Oasis, Joy Division, The The, Madness, Depeche Mode, Lloyd Cole, etc etc. Two things the Brits have always excelled in are music and comedy (Fawlty Towers, Yes Minister, Only Fools and Horses, etc). It almost makes up for their governments ego maniacal slaughter of every other country they came in contact with. Almost.

 

[Satlook]

Morrissey!
No reunion please!

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

Here's a thought, if Morrissey had launched himself as a solo artist back in the day, I reckon he would have failed, whereas Marr just needed someone to put words to his music, and In my opinion he would have been a success.

And how many have 'just' put words to Marrs music since the breakup of the Smiths that have been as successful (as important) as what the Smiths have created ?

let's face it....


He needed Morrissey.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

...Morrisey was his man and Angie was his woman.
Just kidding...

Are the details really that important? Why are English people many times so obsessed over anything sexual or erotic anyway?
Almost if they need to feel a bit ashamed about but enjoying it at the same time?

I like how Johnny Marr described his relationship with Moz.
By the way, isn't possible a man could love or let's say feel love for another man without the erotic implication? I'd say yes. Not that it would matter. I can love a woman and I can love a man, but I wouldn't have an erotic relation with a man. Or I could but it would be a very one directional relation. Not give and take.

And it is only sex, you know. No big issue. Just natural, like eating and drinking. Give some one some pleasure like that someone gives to you. Is that SO strange?

I love Moz as so many other men do who don't consider themselves as to be erotically attracted to him. At least that is what they are saying.
I guess I am weird than, but I don't f***ing care!

why kid about that... the Smiths were a humasexual band... people gotta grow up and deal with their hidden fears.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

If you ever bump into Bernard make sure to compliment the last New Order album. It's on full volume in my car whenever I'm in it. Best album by anyobe in years. I'm buying his autobiography as a present to myself for Xmas.

Bernard's book is a good read, especially the transcript of what took place when Bernard put Ian under a state of hypnosis and Ian talked about his past lives.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I just did as you so kindly asked.
I'm missing something though, err, could it be the bass guitar?

well, it's definitely not the drums anyone's missing !

 

[Quando quando quando]

why kid about that... the Smiths were a humasexual band... people gotta grow up and deal with their hidden fears.

On a side note I noticed I made the greatest f***ing typo of all my life. The one I thought would never happen to me.
You didn't even comment KS !
Morrisey in stead of Morrissey. f***ing hell.
I edited my post, but you don't have to as I am angry at myself. That will teach me.
Why did you not kid me with that?

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

I really respect the way Johnny has discussed this - evidently he's in a place where he accepts the good and bad of the past and is content. The lack of snark is refreshing, good on him. Reunion will never, ever happen, but being the idealistic (and naive) person I am I'll always hold out hope that one day, when it's all said and done, they'll end up good friends in the end.

I feel M and Marr will always be friends even if they never talked to each other again, after what they both have been through together creating the music that they have, the rest of the world can go to hell.

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

"Was Joyce justified in bringing the court case? “Mike had a right to do it. I don’t think he should have done because we had an agreement. Looking back, I would have done things differently. I’d make sure you don’t move a muscle without a contract – for everybody’s benefit. Young people aren’t good at doing that kind of thing, and we had to pay the price for it.” Would he still regard the 10% Joyce and Rourke were paid as a fair deal? “I would be more generous,” he says. “But it wasn’t a band of equals. Thirty-odd years later I think anyone can see that.”

 

[ZOOM FROM GLOOM]

On a side note I noticed I made the greatest f***ing typo of all my life. The one I thought would never happen to me.
You didn't even comment KS !
Morrisey in stead of Morrissey. f***ing hell.
I edited my post, but you don't have to as I am angry at myself. That will teach me.
Why did you not kid me with that?

well, there have been worst crimes, but not many.

 

[Quando quando quando]

well, there have been worst crimes, but not many.

I agree.
On the other hand it's just a typo.
I am of the conviction that if you were to do a crime, do it big time with all expertise and effort possible. Moneywise I mean.
I am not having my name in the criminal records for just a typo.

 

[No1uno]

Who would want to listen to this without Morrissey?

Thanks for the find. His channel has many smiths songs done so you can see how all the instruments are played without vocals. I thought they were very interesting to watch.

Watching this one in seperate guitar parts played and then together. What a gifted musician Marr is. Andy did great bass


But yes, the singing morrissey laid was equally as gifted.

Edit- like 10+ guitar parts. Wonderful